Mike Iannelli: Yeah. Well, Mike Iannelli, as you mentioned, Don and I am a co-founder of a company called Ablr. Ablr is a full service, disability, inclusion and digital accessibility company located here in the triangle. We have been around for two years now, which is absolutely amazing when I think about, I still have to pinch myself.

We have an amazing team of people that care a great deal about equality, inclusion. We’re a blend of a tech company and a hybrid company in terms of the way we do our testing. 70% of our company is employed with people with disabilities and professionals with disabilities, which is really cool. So it’s an absolute honor to be part of this company. 

I’m a dad of three kids, teenage kids, which is can’t curse on this show, but very difficult, I don’t know what else, my hobbies, I like to play golf. I like the fish in my kayak and, I like people and I’m enjoying, I’m enjoying this, this time in my life. I’ll tell just a funny, I was on a flight last week and Don, you know, that before you and I met, I lived on an airplane for four years and coming back, I got the jitters a little bit, like it was a really bumpy ride.

And I was like, I think I’m afraid of flying all of the sudden, like what is going on? I I’ve, I’ve flown all the time. And I got home and I started researching, is it possible to have a fear of flying later on in life? And, and everything I’m seeing is it’s, it’s because there’s a gratitude in your life.

And you’re realizing for the first time how much life means to you, how important life is to you. And there’s so much, so much more I want to live and do and see, and experience and, and help. And so I think that sums it up really nicely as that maybe I’m finally hitting my stride as a human being and I’m beyond, beyond grateful for that. So I just thought that was unique that now I’m, now I have a fear of flying because I enjoy my life, which is which is amazing in some ways, but it’s not going to help with the fear of flying.

Don: Oh, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. Jackie, would you take minute to introduce yourself? 

Jackie Ferguson: Thanks, Don. I’m Jackie Ferguson. I am the co-founder and head of content and programming for The Diversity Movement. I’m from Wappingers Falls, New York, which is about an hour above New York City and grew up in a small town and love small towns, enjoyed living in New York City for a little while after college.

I’m a small-town girl and I like my habits. And so I found myself in North Carolina. I’m a wife, a mom, a daughter, a sister, and I take those roles very seriously in my life. And, and they’re a responsibility and a privilege. 

I started my career in, in the background, right, supporting executives and, you know, doing some marketing, but everything in the background. So stepping into my role with The Diversity Movement, I’ve had to step out in front, which has been slightly terrifying actually for me. But you know, I am consistently reminded of why I do what I do from, you know, my family and, and my obligations there and wanting to, you know, provide for my family and, and reach my goals.

But also more broadly for the world and what my voice could mean to people that are like me look like me, that, that don’t, but I am an ally for and that’s super important to me. I like to cook. That’s what I do on my downtime. That’s my hobby. And I like to travel, but obviously that’s on hold.

Mike, I hope that I don’t have that when I jumped back on planes here, since that fear of flying. Yeah, I’m just enjoying what I’m doing with The Diversity Movement and, and really living outside of my comfort zone now. I guess that’s about it. Thanks Don.

Shelley Willingham: Hi, I’m Shelley Willingham. I met Don, Jackie and Mike in 2020, when I joined The Diversity Movement, I’m the vice president of business strategy there. I also have a digital marketing company. I am from Rocky Mount, North Carolina. I went to UNC Chapel Hill and my very obnoxious, obnoxious Carolina fan.

Mike: Go Heels.

Shelley: Yes Go Heels. I moved to Chicago after college for several years and where I started my sales career, loved corporate sales, but started looking at all the money I was making for all these companies I was working for and said, I can do this for myself. And so I actually moved back to North Carolina and started my first business and started in the diversity space in the early two thousands, started a business that got me in Fortune Magazine and had 15 employees, and we were really doing some amazing work. And then in 2007, market kind of tanked. 2008, diversity was no longer an issue in America because we had a Black president. So companies started to cut diversity budgets.

As a consequence of those two things colliding and I lost everything that I owned and had to figure out how to rebuild my life from absolutely nothing. And so, kind of fast forward to, to doing that and getting to August, 2020, and we’re sitting around watching what happened at George Floyd, and I had to ask myself what was going to be my role in this movement. And at the time I rebuilt my business and kind of doing my own thing.

And then Don, if any, everybody that’s listening knows Don, had me thinking we were going to partner on some things, but actually joined the company and decided to kind of put my business on hold because I knew that at this time, in this moment, what I could do to help try to affect change.

And so very excited to be a part of this team. I’m a mom of two. I have an 18-year-old son and a 10-year-old daughter. You know, my goal in life is just to maintain my peace and to do things that set my soul on fire, and diversity, equity and inclusion is one of those topics that does that for me. 

Don: Wow, thank you all for being here. And those introductions were fantastic, both in terms of you as individuals, but part of that, that motivational piece. Mike, I’m going to start out with you on this question, you were named 40 and fearless, what does that mean to you? Right? What is that? It’s a great to be recognized and it’s great to be awarded and people to appreciate your journey and what you’ve done. And that makes sense. What is, what did this recognition award, what did it mean to the Mike I know?

Mike: Well, you know, honestly, I’m just an honest guy. I didn’t feel like I was worthy of it to be, to be, but I was honored to be recognized. And I think that is to be recognized by your peers is incredibly flattering, and humbling. And it was a shock to me. It’s funny when I, when I got it, I thought it was a joke.

I said that John has said it, you get one of these things. I said, I always get these things about, you know, awards. And I’m like, you know, being in a digital advertising environment, you’re always asked to do awards and there’s always something there’s always a catch. And he goes done, I said, I’m going to delete it. And he’s like, no, no, don’t, don’t delete it. 

So, it was, I mean, it’s an, it’s an honor. I mean, I hopeful that this, no matter how big or small it is brings awareness to what we’re doing as a company because that is really, I mean, that is really what it’s all about. I mean, the people on this call here are trying to do something special to change the world and regardless of where we’re from or what our backgrounds were, we’re here today. And we’re trying to make a difference in the lives of, of people.

And that is you know, something I’ve always dreamt of is doing something professionally every day where you, you actually have an income that you can get paid, but you also leave work knowing that you’re, you’re doing something that really matters. You’re helping people become included to become just normalized. Like we all are. And it’s, that’s the greatest honor in the world for me. and so what I’ve been doing with Ablr is, and I will say this today, it’s the greatest professional experience journey of my entire existence and one that I don’t take for granted. And one that I’m incredibly grateful for.

Don: No, that was powerful. And I think, you know, when I think about you all and the recognition and some of the things that I know, the word that comes to mind, right is overcomers. And that’s because I know some of the backstory, I know some of the things that you all have had to push through, whereas a lot of times now when you start to see your name in lights, a little bit, people see the designation of all of your successes, not necessarily the roadblocks you have to overcome.

Jackie I’ll turn it to you in what to hear, what 40 and fearless means to you, and some examples of things that you’ve overcome. 

Jackie: Well pushed through, thanks, Don. It’s an interesting name for an award because I’m I don’t consider myself fearless. I myself earlier as slightly terrified. Which is super true. Being in the background for my entire career and putting other, making sure other people are ready for the spotlight, right has been my, my goal and doing that well has been extremely important to me. And I remember, the first podcast that I ever did I was literally, I couldn’t breathe. And my daughter, I was literally losing my breath on a podcast with someone that I knew. 

But something about like that record button threw me way off and I literally lost my breath on the call and my daughter wrote me a little handwritten note that says, you know, don’t worry mommy, you’ve got this, just breathe. And I keep that with me for every speaking engagement. It’s significantly better now, but for me, I had to stay focused on the things that, that mattered, that were more important than my fear. 

And so for me, those things are my mom and my, my family and the people, you know, on whose shoulders I stand in that, that have sacrificed for me to be able to do anything that I want. And certainly my daughter and the people that are benefited by what I have to say which I’m extremely thankful for, but you know, I still get nervous in speaking engagements and I still get nervous and podcasts and I still, you know, keep that note with me when, when there’s more than, you know, 30 people on a speaking engagement.

 But I think that sometimes what’s important is not to expect to not have that fear, but to be courageous enough, to push through it towards what you’re trying to accomplish or towards your why. And that’s, that’s what I do every day and the, the situations where I’m uncomfortable and, and afraid. And, you know, those are real emotions and I think that sometimes that can hinder people from finding their true purpose because it’s scary and,

Jackie: and people like to be in their comfort zone, but it’s, it’s beyond your comfort zone that, that you really find what you’re meant to do in the world. And that sometimes you can find your, your true and pure selves. 

Don: Awesome. I mean, obviously I don’t have anything to add to that. That’s your story, that’s your perspective, but I have a comment, and it’s because I have background information. So you mentioned podcasts with 30 people, which is kind of humble. That’s maybe where it started, but when you think of the privilege walks and things you do, webinars that you do, what are, what are the greatest number of people that you’ve presented to digitally lately, what’s the biggest crowd, so to speak. 

Jackie: 800. 

Don: So from someone that was terrified to do a podcast with a friend to now speaking to close to a thousand people is pretty significant. And so I wanted to point that out

That’s really, really awesome. Shelley, you have had a significant career Chief Marketing Officer at a university, enterprise sales, self-employed running your own business, CNBC. That’s one of the things is I was researching, partnering with you. I did my homework and, just a lot of different things that you’ve done. 

What are the, some of the things that allowed you to say, wait a minute, I want to be a part of a team and see if I could do something even bigger, even though you were doing a lot of things successfully more individually out in front, but you’ve incorporated that talent into a team vision. I’m interested why, and also expand on any of the fears that you’ve pushed through and overcome, but just take some space. 

Shelley: One of the things that when you lose everything, you’re free to do anything, and that’s really kind of been my mantra after having lost everything. And I never want to put myself in a situation where I missing an opportunity. So I’ve always been a risk taker. That’s just, my mother always says, why are you so driven?

But I’ve always been a risk taker, and so when you talk to me about the opportunity, again, it was at a moment in time when this movement was, was really starting, and I looked at the team, the people that you’d assembled, I looked at you and what you’ve done and what the goal was. And I knew that I needed to be a part of that.

So my goals for my life personally, and even professionally never shifted. I remained open to possibilities, and I think again, kind of going back to when you lose everything, you’re free to do anything, that’s how I try to approach opportunities that come my way. This has been an amazing experience working with the diversity movement.

I’m super excited about what we’re doing and where we’re headed. And I think about being, being fearless when I was going through all the things that I was going through, I never thought about it like that. I was just trying to survive each day, trying to be strong for myself and for my children and figure out okay, how are we going to eat this week? What are we going to do? 

When I think about, you know, fearless it’s, I think a lot of people that go through challenging situations at the time aren’t thinking about, oh gosh, I’m so strong. It really is just taking it step by step to push through, just to get to the next day. At least that’s how it was for me. 

What I do find interesting is that when I do tell my story, there are so many people that will reach out to me because they’re afraid, they’re afraid of telling their story. I’ve been there. I was held hostage by my story. I was the shit. I like this is not supposed to be happening to me.

I’m not supposed to be going to social services to get, I mean, me? I’m a college graduate. I have a, me? And I was held hostage by this story, but when I opened up and shared it, it did set me free and it gave people that are in bondage right now that are trying to uphold some value of, or looks a certain way to a certain group because of their social background or their friends and their family, and they’re miserable and hurting inside because they don’t feel free to really tell, tell what’s really going on.

That’s, that’s powerful to me. So I I’m glad that I overcame that fear of sharing what’s happened in my life because I’m hoping that that helps to set other people free as they go through theirs.

Don: That’s powerful. Thread through all of you, is that the professional success that people see outwardly, right? I had the opportunity to see some of the overcoming and then through the sharing of stories and different things. The one thing I’ll just add, all have the ability to inspire others. And it’s not always through that powerful, eloquent speech, but it’s by winning each day. It’s the simple things that we do that allow other people to see themselves in us. And we bear that responsibility and you all carry that torch beautifully, and it’s one of the reasons that I respect you all because there are a lot of people out there today with the pandemic and the way the economy has shifted and changed.

And although there’s the great resignation and all these jobs available, I’ll tell, I’ll do this briefly, but this broke my heart a little bit and I have to express it. I was doing a speaking engagement in American Underground in Durham, North Carolina. And so the Earfluence team did great. I was running late as usual, so they grabbed somebody to park my car for me. I run into the thing and do this podcast and they made me look like it was super smooth, right. All this stuff. But on the way out, in fact, I was talking to Mike. 

Don: know if you remember this. I went out of the garage and I was like, oh crap. Mike, I’ll call you back, because even though I have all these beeps and gadgets on my car, I backed into another car in this garage because the cars were kind of tight and I’m like, okay, this is like an honesty moment.

I was like, look, nothing’s there. Do you leave a note or do you just like, keep it moving or whatever, but I back to this car, so Mike, I got to call you back? And so I’m looking for some paper, I’m going to leave a note in case there’s an issue or whatever, and it was this older truck. Two people lifted their head out of the trunk.

It was not a hanky panky thing. They were sleeping in this truck. I walked towards the truck and I was like, hey, is there any damage? Let me take care of it, do we need to call anybody. They looked, they were like, no, we’re all good. And then I just looked, cause I saw sleeping bags and different things. And the man kind of felt like he needed to give me an explanation.

Do you know, that like when somebody sees you at a point? Right, and he said the pandemic’s been tough. And I just said, well, let me pay you for the damages. He said, there’s no damage. I said, there’s some damage, right. And, we are pushing through our thing, but there are so many folks that have been impacted by the last several years of this world.

That just needs somebody to give them that little bit of encouragement to keep pushing. That’s just one example I saw you all could give, give many, but success does give people hope. When you see someone that looks like you has a background, like you has a perspective like you, and, and that’s so powerful that you all have, have done.

Jackie, I’m going to go to you on a question then Mike I’m going to come back to you. and so Jackie, here’s what I would like to, you mentioned something that was powerful. You mentioned you were terrified. 

Jackie: Yes.

Don: Right. And, and not fearless, like the statement you made, but I want you to unpack it a little bit is when you figure out things that matter more than your fear, the powerful way that you said it, I’m not trying to add to that. How do you do that in those everyday situations when that fear is trying to grip you? Right? That’s what I want to try to get out to our audience. Like what do you, what do you think? What do you write? What do you do so that you keep pushing through?

Right because the fear is real. It’s not going away as you described, but you’re keeping it at bay. What are some of the things that you would advise our folks that are listening? 

Jackie: The most important thing Don, that I did was I never stopped saying yes. Keep saying yes to the things that you’re afraid of. And then from there, for me, it helps to be sometimes over-prepared right, really prepare, that helps me be as comfortable as I can. And then give yourself space to feel what you feel and to also recover from what you feel.

So when I did my very first speaking engagement, it was for the Raleigh Chamber, and that was the first virtual privilege walk. And so there were probably 600 people on that, on that call, which is a hell of a way to introduce you to the world of speaking, right. So I was up the night before I couldn’t sleep for probably three days which I’ve, I’ve managed to whittle down to like 30 minutes before now, but I couldn’t sleep for like three days.

And I know Shelley’s thinking, cause she speaks all the time and to bigger audiences. And so I know she’s thinking like, wow so it was like three days I couldn’t sleep over preparing, preparing, preparing, and then I was really useless for the rest of the day because that I was so amped up from the, from the fear. But the more I said yes, the easier it became. And I still, depending on who the client is or how big the group is.

I still get nervous, but it’s, it’s not the same level of, of terror that it was when I first started. So my advice there is just keep saying yes, because every time I would say yes, I would think about who it helps. And I would think about my daughter being proud, or my mother being proud or my husband being proud and that matters to me. 

Don: That’s awesome. Appreciate that. Very, very much. 

Mike: I’m happy for you, Jackie. 

Don: Yeah, it’s big stuff for all, all of you, what you are doing and will do not just what you’re doing. Like the thing about this podcast, one of the reasons I wanted to do it, selfishly, is I want to put a stamp when you were recognized for the fearless, and then we’ll, we’ll do a look back in a couple of years because what you all will do.

The best is yet to come. And that to me is exciting to be able to just kind of watch that and see that, cheer for that. Mike, I’m going to give you some space. I don’t want to assume that everyone has heard of Ablr. I don’t want to assume that everyone understands what invisible disabilities are and things of that nature.

So I’d like for you to take a moment and describe what Ablr is, what you all do, in the space of disability inclusion. So I want to give you some space to, to describe that a bit. 

Mike: So a lot of folks don’t know that there are over 2 billion people worldwide that have a disability. And I will tell you, I’m probably the first to tell you every day, when you think about the internet today, you think about websites and social media and mobile applications and games and anything digital, the ADA, which is Americans with Disabilities Act was formed many years ago. And it was, it was created to help individuals with disabilities, physical spaces.

Curb height, parking, you know, standard you know, baseboard, height, everything like that, but it wasn’t in, it did not include digital. And, and so they’ve read, modified it at about 13 years ago. I believe 13, maybe 18.

It’s disheartening to see how many people are affected by this, and by the exclusion. You know, I’ve built hundreds of websites in my day and I’ve never, ever thought about this in my life, never, never thought about ADA, never thought about accessibility or worldwide content accessibility guidelines, or making sure that our content was accessible for everyone. And oftentimes it was sort of a, it was selfish. It was a cost thing. It was like, well, I hear this today and it drives me nuts. Well, we don’t have anybody that’s blind that buys our product.

Shelley: Yeah.

Mike: And it’s very difficult to hear those things. But, and that’s really, that’s the staple of our issue in our country. I mean, you think about it. It’s, it’s, we’re just so selfish, and oftentimes we don’t have enough time because we’re so, always context switching, and we don’t have enough time to think about other people 

I’m getting off the tangent a little bit here, but I think what the purpose is, is what we do is we ensure that all content for everyone is accessible. So whether you have a cognitive impairment, which could be dyslexia, you have auditory where you have challenges hearing or visual impairments or even physical impairments that, that anyone can access the same content that we do every day, so they can navigate, they can purchase, they can sign up for online banking. They can purchase a home, they can buy a car, they can go online and shop, just the standard things that you and I take for granted every day, that is so hard, overly difficult for people with disabilities, overly difficult. Just getting a ride sometimes is difficult. 

So for me, you know, I’ve, you all know that I’ve always, I’m a little outspoken to say the least, but for years I’ve always wondered, like what, what, what, what is my purpose and mission, right. I, I still don’t. I think I know now, but is to, is to, if I can do anything is to bring a voice, A strong voice to this community to help make a difference that honestly, like if that’s all I do in my career, then that will, that will be enough for me because the stories that I hear on a daily basis about what this community goes through is it’s, it’s absolutely disheartening and it’s very, very difficult to hear.

But that’s making me feel good every day because we’re making these changes and it’s not just able, are there companies all over the country that are doing this and there’s these amazing applications out there that help people every day. So it’s just, it’s honest, it’s just amazing being part of it. But we, we love what we do. 

We’re giving people opportunity to work, which is fantastic. We’re helping companies become more diverse, similar to what you all are doing, in preparing their companies and cultural diversity and to embrace individuals with disabilities, and then we’re helping organizations become prepared, so they’re not missing out on customers.

Right? If you think about, you know, one and nine have a cognitive impairment, but there’s 10 million people in the US and it’s growing every day with the elderly community with eyeglasses and people. I mean, I’m struggling. I can barely see sometimes. And so it impacts my user experience. 

So yeah, we’ve created this little idea thing, which is DEI+A, but we’ve spun it around a little bit to include accessibility. So we’re honored to be part of this entire movement and we’re doing some great things and I think this is just the beginning 

Don: That is awesome. I appreciate it very much. I can talk to you all, all day and hear your story and hear your wisdom. Shelley, I’m going to start with you as we kind of wind, wind down. Two parts, one is what advice would you give to somebody that’s in their career, in their life? That feeling unfulfilled, unsettled to help them unpack how they can push and find that thing that’s next.

And then I want to give you space. Just anything that maybe you want to share, that I didn’t give the space and ask them. 

Shelley: I would say to look at how you define success, because you know, so many people define success by material things and how much money you have in the bank. And I used to define success by that but what I learned was none of those things made me successful and what I had the opportunity to do again, losing everything was really built and shaped the life, the way that I wanted to.

And so if you’re in a situation now that’s not fulfilling, you might make an, a ton of money. You might have the title, you might have the house, you might have the car, but if you’re not happy, really sit down and figure out what, how you would define success and what that looks like. And then do everything in your power to go after it. And I would just say to, to Jackie’s point, she mentioned about over-preparing and she said that I would, you know, I’m looking at her, like, I can’t believe you do that. That’s not the case at all. I do the same thing, and before I go on, especially in any TV appearance, if you could see me shaking nervous I’m like, why do I even accept these?

Why am I doing this to myself? This is me talking to myself. And immediately after I’m calling my parents, how did I do, how did I do? So you’re going to be afraid,

Jackie: We don’t see it, Shelley.

Shelley: Cause they don’t give you questions beforehand. I mean, it’s all these things, right? So, but you’re always going to be afraid, but I know if I’m not doing things that scare me, that I’m not growing and I’m not getting to that next level. So like you, I love what you said about saying yes. Just continue to say yes.

And don’t think that the fear is going to go away because it’s not, if it goes away, you’re not growing, but just continue to push past it and know that, and this is so cliche, but I’m going to say it, but you’ve seen it on social media. I’m sure. But everything you want is past your comfort zone and I promise you I’ve lived it; it is the truth. So just, just continue to stay the course and push past the fear.

Don: Jackie, I’ll give you the same space. Like what, what would you leave with someone that is unfulfilled, that needs to push that next level? And then please add anything that you’d like to say as we close that, that maybe I missed in asking you. 

Jackie: Well, you know, I think Shelley did a great job of sharing, to finding the things that, that matter to you and how you define success. So the thing that I would just add is what’s more important to you than that fear? What’s more important to you than what’s hard? 

And for me, I remember probably a year ago, and since then, this is, this has been said many times. One of the things that my grandmother told me when I was growing up is I can learn, no matter who you are, I can learn something from you and you can learn something from me. And in a meeting with probably a hundred leaders nationwide, someone quoted my grandmother who didn’t finish school.

Right, and raised her kids, and it really mattered to me that my grandmother was quoted in this, in this very important business meeting. And, and that to me was my purpose. And, and that to me mattered more than what was hard or what I was afraid of. And so figure out for yourself what matters more than the fear, what matters more than the hard, because then you’ll be able to continue to say yes.

Don: Mike, how I’ll ask the same thing, like what words of wisdom? What, what would you leave our audience with as they’re pushing through the things that they need to wear that fearless mantle? Even if you only wear it for a moment or for 20 minutes, right. What advice would you give those folks that need to overcome to hit their next level like you all have?

Mike: For me, you know, we all have unique experiences, I think for me, prioritization. I mean, if you, I, I. I always was raised to think that money was everything. I, I, I wasn’t raised, my parents would kill me if I said that, but I was, I felt that way probably because of my circumstances that I want it to be more comfortable and not, and so I was always so driven and driven, driven, and driven, and I didn’t realize along the way that I wasn’t growing as a person, I was still very immature professionally, extremely immature professionally.

I think for me is it’s, it’s, it’s putting yourself in perspective. It was for me, and I don’t know if everyone can do that. I think sometimes you have to go through something traumatic to, to recognize what is occurred or what path you have gone down, maybe astray. But I didn’t lose everything like you, Shelley, I, and I have incredible respect for you. Wow I’m just blown away by that. But I, I almost hit, I mean, I, I, I lost a lot. I almost lost people that meant the most to me, which was more than any financial thing that could ever matter. And so when you’re faced with that, you, you have to realize that the accountability really, you always hear those things, like where does the accountability fall?

And it’s like, so easy to be like, well, you did it too, you know? And it’s like, for me, it was accepting everything that I had done and been through and people that I affected. And, and when I, when I sensed that I could see the purpose for me. I could see that I had to put people first, like it like really put, and not just like, I’ve always cared about my clients.

I’ve always deeply cared about people I worked with, but I didn’t really express it in a way that that was meaningful. I, I took my title and my growth probably for granted at a young age. And now my feeling is what matters to me. And it really is the people in your life. It’s not the fancies. I mean, there it’s the people, it’s the people on this call that I care deeply about.

It’s my children that are in the other room. It’s my parents. It’s my clients, my friends. It’s, it’s, that’s really at the end of the day with you can build a career around doing good, and I know that sounds maybe that does sound cliche. Maybe it doesn’t, but doing something every day that matters to you personally.

And I’m trying to teach my kids that now, and it’s so difficult with social media and all this stuff, but pick a path that you’re excited about every single day. And if you do that, everything else I think will come if you believe in yourself, I do believe everything will come and, I mean, that’s all I can think of. I mean, it’s probably not as eloquent, but it’s, it’s important to stay focused on what matters.

Don: I think all of you have said in different ways, but powerful ways, right, that ability to be selfless, is something where you can get lasting joy, right? And that doesn’t mean that you don’t take care of you or your family. It means in addition to you do have the capacity to think about others and you know, the thing that I would end with, and again, I’m really excited about this, this chat and in this timestamp, and seeing where you all are in the next couple of years, with all the big things and stuff. 

The thing that I would say to folks that are working through kind of what’s next for them and how to overcome is that I never wanted to leave without every option pursued. That doesn’t mean I can do or chase every job or dream, but if I’m in a business, why would I go half-hearted at something when I don’t know what the results would be if I gave everything that I’ve got. And if I give everything that I’ve got, even if I’m afraid, even if the odds were against me, man, maybe something fantastic could happen. And the big thing that I would find that I do a little different than most is even when I felt alone, you have to realize there are people that want to and are willing to help you.

It’s really our egos that keep us from asking for that help. And we have to ask ourselves, are we alone on purpose because we haven’t allowed ourselves to ask those people that are out there that are willing to help us meet our goals and dreams, and that was a fight for me. That was my, you know, when I was down a little bit and maybe not as far along as I wanted that ego of asking for advice that ego of asking somebody to support a new idea.

And once you manage that, it’s kind of amazing, right, how many doors open for people that share a similar dream, share a similar story, a similar perspective on what you want to do, and you all can work together to get there. And I say that because that’s how I found each of you, is I don’t close my mind to finding people that we can grow together, and our goals may not be exactly the same, but they’re close enough where we can both get some things that we want while we’re doing something amazing. And anything I’ve ever been able to do successfully has been because finding great folks that we can share the stage together.

And the stage, you know, is big enough for other people, and the one thing that I tell leaders all the time is if you have a dream that only I can do, then your dream is really small and you should go off by yourself and do that. If you have a really big dream, you need some great big dreamers with you. And I choose to have a really, really big dream that includes folks like yourself, and we shape it right to meet the needs of ourselves, our families. also things that you all are doing every day to help others. 

And with The Diversity Movement, with Ablr and the example you are setting, you are the best of us. And I wish there were more and more leaders in our country that had the thoughtfulness and the openness that you all do, but we’re doing our best. And we are each and every day doing a little bit to kind of push the needle. So thank you all and DT over and out. Thank you so much for spending this space with us. 

All: Thanks DT.