Dana: I think so. I think I would go; I don’t know if I would be comfortable. I would go for the sake of felt like if I was Like doing an article or something. And that’s what I needed to do. I don’t think I would feel weird about it. Like, I don’t think the body is weird. 

Courtney: Yeah. I would go, I, it wouldn’t bother me, especially if everybody else was naked. Right. Like I’ve been in spas around people naked and it didn’t bother me cause everybody else was naked. It’s weird to be the only clothed person in a naked environment. That’s where it to be probably the only naked person in a clothed environment. But I think if everybody were naked, I don’t think it would bother me. 

Dana: Well, what would be something that you would do. Like, I don’t know. Is there something that you like, hearing them talk about all the different, like he was curious about, you know, wrestling, so he became the wrestling manager, like, was there an article that you would like submerse yourself into that world to be able to write, to learn more about?

Courtney: I don’t know. I’ve always been really interested in other cultures. Like one of our most fun experiences for me as an event planner was when we planned a Muslim wedding and they’re super modern, you know, and there was lots of people who were in that wedding party that wore a hijab and hearing the perspective of like why they hijab and who hijabs and who doesn’t, what the, what the reason is.

It was really enlightening to me that, And I don’t think this is the case in every Muslim culture, but in this particular culture, I think a lot of these people were from Egypt, it was the woman’s choice to wear hijab. Like it was just something very personal to her, and there wasn’t really any external pressure that I knew of, you know, at that time to wear this hijab.

And it struck me as an erroneous opinion that I always had of that culture, because I always assumed that it was like a male dominated, coerced thing, and I could not be further from the truth. And these were very educated doctors, lawyers, et cetera, who had their own personal reasons to hijab. And it made me just respect them so much more.

Do you know what I mean? And it really made me second guess my biases to that. And what I really, really don’t know, you know what I mean? And so I think just probably something cultural, like immersing myself in another culture and why they do what they do. Like what makes them tick? Cause I love, especially like when I’m watching like movies or reading books, I like historical things.

Or I love things about other cultures because it doesn’t remind me much of my day-to-day life, but it’s a way to learn about something that would never have a chance to learn about, you know, so I think something along those lines. So I can’t say exactly what culture it would be, but I think whatever would be peaking my interest at the time.

Dana: Yeah, I mean, I definitely love cultural things. I think it would definitely be high on the list. I think I’d want to think about though something like a job that I don’t fully understand, or maybe they don’t fully respect, really. So, I have a really hard time understanding like how, honestly, like how like politics works or like you see these movies and these TV shows and like, oh, it’s just like that or whatever.

I think it’d be really interesting to be in the room while like policy is being made and, and understanding like all the nuances for like, I feel like there’s a lot of times, and I’m not like, I’m not right or wrong about it, but there’s a lot of times you give a lot of crap for like things that get passed and you’re like, oh, they took this out, took that, put that in and blah, blah, blah.

And it’s like, I wonder what really is like behind the scenes, like why that happened. And like, I don’t know if I’d just give a little more grace this situation or it could just be more infuriating to like how our political system works. So I thought, I mean, what he mentioned his wife was a judge, I thought that would be like a super interesting place to be like, and he touched on it.

He said, you know, she said, like this, for a lot of people. It’s the worst day of their life that they’re there at the lowest of the low. And it is such an amazing opportunity to be a judge, to be a neutral party, as hard as it is to make a decision on something on an action someone’s had and decide what’s fair. Like, I don’t think I could handle it. I don’t ever, ever want to be that, but I think it would be really fascinating to witness it. And then also to be able to debrief with that judge about like, why they made that decision, and talk through it with it

So I don’t know, I think, but I think all that stuff is super fascinating and I think it, what it does is it does create a little bit more empathy and understanding for, for things. 

Courtney: Which I think really segwayed into one of his comments that really stuck with me. And I loved it is he feels like these immersive journalism experiences allows him to have this wonderful opportunity to put aside his own opinion. Like not being the one that’s saying, oh, that’s good or that’s bad, but being or seeing something from an objective standpoint. Like I really loved that. 

Dana: I did too, and I think it’s, I think it’s where the world needs to get to. But when he was talking about it and I think journalism in general, there’s very few like middle of the road, journalism, especially story journalism, right where you’re telling a story because you’re hearing one side of the story. Maybe, maybe hearing both sides of the story, but you’re also interjecting your own opinion into it.

But, I mean, even if you’re like to submerge yourself into this, like go into your example, like, okay, like, I would love to talk about this Muslim wedding. Right. What you got out of it, your opinion was like, oh, this was a choice. This was a, whatever like that, another person could hear that same story and feel like, well, I don’t know.

Like, I don’t think maybe, maybe there’s all these outside pressures, like maybe it was ingrained in them from when they were a little, like, you know what I mean? So there’s still like, definitely like an opinion piece to it. It just makes you a better well, a more well-rounded person in general. So it’s like, and I think the hope when you’re sharing stories is that people would have that same experience that you would, that they would say, oh, like they can visualize and they can live this moment through you.

And hopefully come out the other side of it and be changed and be more empathetic and whatnot. But I think there’s a lot of times people, they just don’t have that ability to do it. They don’t have the ability to put aside their opinion. You know, like they’re always going to have their own like bias spin to it.

Courtney: Yeah. I mean, I think getting back to like that particular situation with the wedding is, I saw it, like a hijab in general, as you know, obviously like something that was different from our culture outside of our cultural norm, I thought that it was more patriarchal. Would I want to wear a hijab? No, it seemed very hot and cumbersome.

And so in my mind, like, like, oh, that’s bad. Do you know what I’m saying, is how I felt. But then like being in this experience, it’s just different. And I remember after that, we were members of Lifetime and there were several Muslim community members that attended Lifetime or whatnot, and they, I saw them in there, like Burkinis in there, Hijabs at and the pool and whatnot.

And I was just like in awe of them, more so than like, wow, like they’re so repressed, you know what I mean? And it allowed me to stay like sometimes I see something and I attribute a good or a bad to it and that’s not right, right. That’s just how I feel about it, but it just is different. 

Dana: Yeah. And I, and I guess, there’s very few things I look at and I, and I label it as good, or bad. There’s a lot of things to look at it and say, I don’t understand it. And I think that’s how what that wedding, I’ve very much approached as like, I don’t understand. I don’t understand it. I don’t under, because maybe I did have a feeling that it was forced but I, I had a hall mate in college who explained that whole process to me and how she was her decision to hijab when she was 18 and but she had an older sister who never had one and her mom didn’t make the decision until her kids were born. 

And, but she just always felt really, like, she felt very comfortable and peaceful about that decision. But there is, but even then I didn’t understand it and understand because I was 18 when I met this person. So I didn’t even understand, you know, why she made that choice fully. Like, like, I don’t understand like where you’re coming from, but I want to learn and I want to, and I want to understand where you’re coming from, you know, and I think that’s like, what gets lost a lot. 

Courtney: Yeah. I, I, I love that journalistic approach about that. Like, hey, maybe we should all just write articles. 

Dana: Well, because I think what it does, is it’s not necessarily he’s going to write an article on a nudist colony all of a sudden, I’d be like, oh, a nudist colony. I want to go join a nudist colony, and I understand these people so much, but I think what it does is it gives people the courage to say, this person tried something really hard and really weird and to me right, and they, and they made a decision to. To try to better themselves and try to understand this, this group of people.

And it almost gives you, emboldens you and the courage to do the same thing about something else. Maybe not about a nudist colony, but maybe about another thing that you’re interested in. And I think that to me is the bigger message. Is that, is it breeds, courage and acceptance and like, oh, I can do that. Like I can put myself in somebody else’s shoes, for two hours, like I can make myself uncomfortable and ask the hard questions, because most people want to tell their story. These people want to say why they want to explain themselves. Like they want to. Cause they want to other people to see their, to see who they really are is what everyone,

Courtney: most people ultimately want to be understood 

Dana: Yeah, totally. Yeah. So I thought that was like super interesting. And I think going back to. you know, how you felt like. These women were brave for wearing hijab. Like I think anyone who lives in their truth is brave. Anyone who decides to like live out what they think is right for them, no matter what the world is telling them is brave. Even if I don’t agree with it, I still think it’s brave. 

Courtney: Which I love that. I like how also its kind of segwayed into how he talked about how he always wants to be learning. 

Dana: Yeah. Yeah. Like he doesn’t want to be bored. 

Courtney: He doesn’t want to be bored. Yeah. I felt like I really connected with that, cause that’s how I feel. I’m like, wow, what’s the next thing that I want to try or what’s the next thing? And the next thing 

Dana: I mean, I feel that, I feel that in some ways but I always feel that with an end game in mind, like, it’s not that I look at it and like, I want. to constantly move, but like when he was talking about it, like, honestly all I could think about and like, even you talking about like, oh, this life is a smorgasbord. All that came in my mind is like, we are so privileged to be here.

Courtney: Oh, I do think that. 

Dana: And I think that to me, not like in a negative way, I mean, obviously I know we’ve worked hard for things and I mean all the caveats of all that, whatever bullshit. But like at the end of the day, I look at this and me and Sam, we’re talking about this the other day, like we were, we were walking with the kids we were going on a hike and he was like, we just look at what the world, like our world and our life and think how extremely lucky we are. Like, how did we get here? Like, how are we here? And he’s like, I know we’ve worked hard and we’ve done all the things he said, but really, and I said, well, I think there is a little bit of luck. I think there’s definitely hard work, but I think it’s like, we were set up for success from the moment we were born.

Courtney: You didn’t get to decide where you’re going to land, 

Dana: right? Like, I feel like 

Courtney: there’s that piece that’s, but then at the same time, I would like to point out, and I’m not, this isn’t a toot your horn situation at all. We have many family members who started in the exact same spot. They’re all alive and eating and all that, so there there’s like kind of like the Pavlov’s hierarchy of need everyone’s needs are met. You know what I’m saying? But there’s people who started the exact same spot, who life looks very, very different, whose lives are way more successful some of them and whose lives are way less successful in terms of conventional success. 

Dana: No, I’m not, I’m saying there are choices, but regardless, like we started in a great place, you know, and, but I think that, that’s the thing that I would love when I think about my kids and their decisions is I want them to be, make those choices, I want them to be able to decide if they, you know, work hard and do these things and they can be successful because I think there’s some people that no matter how hard they work, they can’t be successful because of circumstances in their life. 

And so I want to create that base where they don’t have, where they’re not on that struggle necessarily. Like, and I feel like how we were, how, like we had a great strong base that that allowed that thought of, oh, if you work hard you will be successful, you know what I mean? but that’s what I thought of, and it just made me like, super grateful for that, I guess, at the end of the day, like, oh, like grateful for the, for that life that we have, that we’re able to do that. 

Courtney: Yeah, I don’t, I don’t ever look at it out of a sense of, without a sense of gratitude. I mean, I write down things I’m grateful for all the time. Like just, even in just particular moments, but it is really nice to be able to have choices, to be able to say, this is what I want to do, or this is what I want to try, or that’s not what I want to do anymore.

That’s not what I want to try and not be even beholden what I thought I wanted to do 10 years ago, you know, so it is really, really great to be able to be in and that space. I do think it goes back to staying curious and being in that constantly learning environment. I think that creates a fulfilling life.

Dana: Yeah. I definitely think so. and I think that there’s just different, different ways to look at that curiosity and that boredom as well. Like I think. And I think that’s what I found really interesting about him is like, what he found to be interesting and like what his goals were in life. Right. And, and I, and I did really resonate with that.

Like, you know, and I think about that often, especially as the kids are getting older, like how fast time is and how much it’s like moving at a pace that I can’t quite keep up with it. And I do think that I’m like, oh my God, like, you know, how far, how long of my life do I have left? And what am I going to regret?

You know, what am I going to regret in these next six years with Ada being home? What am I going to regret like, you know when she has her own kids and it’s like that? And there’s obviously things I will regret because you can’t avoid that, but it’s how can I live my life in a way that’s intentional right now that I can really feel like I said, like, hey, I did all the things I wanted to do.

Courtney: like you’re on the path to do all the things you want to do? 

Dana: I mean, I think there’s a lot of it. Yeah. I mean, I think we talk about a lot of things and I think it’s, I think sometimes it’s looking at like what I thought I wanted to do when what I thought I wanted isn’t really what I actually wanted. You know? Like, I don’t know. I just, I think it’s just trying to figure that out. Yeah. You 

Courtney: How do you know till you get there?

Dana: But I really, one of the things that stuck with me too, and I think this is probably because of my own, like personal, traumatizing year I’ve had so far is when he said, you don’t know when you’re in a golden age. And I thought that was so, so true. And I, then there is no way to know that you’re in a golden age.

I really don’t think there is. I really don’t think there’s ever a way to know that truly. But like, what do you, when you look back, what is something that you thought, man, that was the golden age and I didn’t know it, I didn’t appreciate it. 

Courtney: I think about that about multiple, like facets of my life, where I look back. Like, for example, I remember right before I had Mason, I didn’t know I was pregnant with Mason and we were getting ready to go on a cruise. And I had this little tiny plaid bikini, tiny, tiny plaid bikini. And I remember feeling so insecure in this bikini. Like I felt like I just looked like a whale.

I look back at pictures. I was tiny because you couldn’t not be tiny and wear this bikini. You remember the one that I’m talking about? And I remember trying it on after Mason thinking, I had no idea what I had til it was gone. You know, like it’s like they paved paradise, but so I think about like that. I feel like I’ve known for a long time that the nineties were the golden age because I really, really feel like they were the golden age.

But at the time, I mean, I was, you know, like in high school and starting college and you didn’t know that. You were still forward-thinking thinking that something better was going to come around the corner and then it just, it didn’t. But I personally, and this is like, kind of like the scary, real, not to be morbid part of it, but like we’re in a golden age right now.

And I’m not saying in terms of like society or like what’s going on in the world or, but it’s like that moment in, for everybody’s life where one, like all the kids are healthy, everybody’s kind of moving forward and has an idea of what they’re doing and their career. You’re not wondering where your next meal’s coming from.

And, you know, you have like this, this accumulation, but you can still do things. Most of our family is still alive. Like there’s not like big periods of like mourning going on or anything like that. And I feel like this is the golden age. 

Dana: Yeah. I mean, I think that, for me, my goal age I didn’t know, was college a hundred percent. I think I did not realize how wonderful college really was. I mean, I had a ton of fun in college, but I also stress a lot through college. Like I, you know, and I stressed about me and Sam a lot through college. And like if I just could have let that go. That would have been amazing, you know? But I think that when I, when he said that, I thought about like, I don’t think I could say this whole five years of my life and every aspect was the golden age but I think I can very much like chunk up, like, okay, like, and I, and I think right now I agree that there are like, as a parenting wise, like, I think we’re in a golden age because we’re just at that cusp of like, where they still like really love us. They really liked being around us. We still like being a family of four. 

Courtney: They haven’t come become like complete assholes yet. They still care about your opinion, 

Dana: But I don’t feel that way necessarily about like, I really hope we’re not in a golden age with business. Like yeah, I really do, because that would be terrible. Like, not that I’m saying we aren’t doing well right now, but it’s just not like my ideal situation. It’s not an I, it’s a, it’s an unsurmountable amount of work that is on a team. It is an unattainable pace of life. And if this is the golden, age 

Courtney: oh, I don’t think the pace is, I’m not saying that I’m saying the opportunity. I’m not saying like the 

Dana: But I, but I also don’t, but I also don’t think that’s true. I think that there’s a lot of opportunity coming down the pipeline and, making all of these changes we’re doing this year should be the, we should be walking into a golden age for it, you know? 

Courtney: I think that everyone, when you’re making business moves, and you’re making big business investments. Like whether that’s like personnel or brick and mortar or whatever, like you’re anticipating what you’re going to do is going to be better for either your business or your life or your whatever.

Like you’re making those moves in anticipation of things being better. So I definitely think like, yes, we’re making the moves and I think that. I don’t 100% believe in luck. I believe that lucky people are people who are poised to take opportunity. Like you make yourself available and you do all the things.

And then when those opportunity strikes, you can walk through that door. It’s not about like, you know, Stardust and sprinkles or whatnot. So I think that for business, like what you’re talking about, like making where we’re at now, I think I feel fortunate to have the ability in business to make big investments and it not affect our lifestyle or the day that day-to-day goings on of the business, that it’s going to poise us to be in a better position later.

Dana: I think there are definitely, there are parts of our business where I can look back. I was like, oh, that was the golden age because we were naive right. And, the pace was manageable and it was fun. And I enjoyed it and I can think back to moments like really enjoying what I did, even though there are periods of stress.

And I know that every year you’re supposed to be improving and in every hope is something’s better blah, blah. And that’s not what I’m talking about. I am not talking about this blanket like, oh, next year will be better. It’ll be better because that’s bullshit like that, that, that is the eternal hope that everyone needs to cling too, and that is not what I’m talking about. Like, I am talking about that, like the world that we have created. And everyone says to us all the time, like, oh my God, you guys do so much, you do so much. And I’m like, yeah, I know that. I get it. Like, and I appreciate you recognizing that, but this is not something to be like, applauded for. This is like something that someone needs to like stage an intervention for.

Courtney: That brings us to the next segment of the show, Dana. 

Dana: But like, but it’s very much Like I look at it and I’m like, we are, we could have made different decisions and we could truly be in the middle of a golden age right now. And we didn’t, and we are slowly making those decisions to get to that point.

And I do think that what’s coming down the pipeline in the next two or three years. It’s not because like, oh, it’s going to be better. It’s like, no, it’s going to be more manageable. It’s going to be more profitable. And it’s going to be something that I feel like we’re going to be pouring ourselves, what we really want to be pouring ourselves into in a way that is more fulfilling. And, I hope when that time comes, that we see that we’re in the middle of the golden age of, of it, because I always have said like business peaks and you want to ride, you want to get to that peak and you want to ride it. And then the minute it starts going down, either you’re going to make some decisions of you’re selling it.

You’re changing your expectations, you. you know, what’s the opposite of scaling, downsizing, you know, whatever, but we haven’t gotten to that yet. 

Courtney: I totally agree. 

Dana: Yeah. But I loved that idea too, because I think the, I think also releasing the expectation that you have to know when you’re in a golden age and like just saying like, that’s just life, like, you just don’t know it till it’s gone and you know, so just assume every stage of life you’re in, 

Courtney: Yeah. Cause I, I mean, maybe you just should assume you’re in a golden moment. Like it’s not even about like, does it have to be an age? Can it just 

Dana: Yeah. And I, but I, I do. And I think that there are things in life that you can look at and say, yes, I can, I can acknowledge this as hard and I can also acknowledge that this is good. And I can maybe acknowledge it. I’ll never get any better. 

That’s what me and Sam are joking about because like shortly after the new year, like we all got COVID and he hit a deer with my brand-new car. And I was like, I swear to God every fucking year, I tell someone it’s going to get better and it just gets worse and worse and worse.

And he said, is it ever going to get better? And I said, no, 2019 was our last best year. It’s not going to get any better. I guess, just not, can we just all come to terms with that 

Courtney: 2019 was your golden year. 

Dana: It’s it. Like that, there’s no, there’s no improving. Cause it just keeps getting shittier and shittier. 

Courtney: Can still hold out hope for 2023.Yeah. I mean, I’m not going to get your car or anything, but.

Dana: But yeah, but I loved it. I thought I had like so many great insights. I think what I really loved about him in general and like, people like him his, his quest to constantly be changing and evolving. And he always said like, stay curious, stay curious. But really what he was saying was stay curious, but also like learn and change, like be a better person at the end of the day. 

Courtney: Yeah I love that.

Dana: really, really loved that. 

Courtney: I loved how he said that when we asked him about his, oh, shit moment, how he said, he’s always going for the oh shit moment. 

Dana: I know that was very powerful.

Courtney: He’s going for those moments that make them uncomfortable, that he’s going to learn and grow from. I thought that this year, like, I, I feel like we’ve put ourselves into some, like an oh shit age, year, whatever. 

And especially like with teaching and whatnot, just like the bandwidth that it’s taken and how much I feel like I’ve grown because of that. Do you know what I’m saying? Like, I feel like at the end of the day, I can think, okay, obviously you’re not done with it, but I’m really proud for stretching myself in that way.

I’m really proud for us stretching ourselves in that way. And in some days it has felt like, oh shit, what have I gotten myself into? I don’t have the time for this right now. You stretch yourself when you grow. And I’m not saying it’s sustainable like year over year, but certainly for the moment, I feel like it was one of those moments where like, okay, I’m going to, I’m going to learn from this, you know, but anyway, I really appreciate that interview that one of our better ones here lately, and I just loved his energy and his outlook on life. It was very refreshing, 

Dana: All right. So let’s end with your fuck up of the week. 

Courtney: You can go first. 

Dana: So we are about two weeks away from our NACE gala. I started, like, I think I made this script and I made the PowerPoint. I think the first year I made it was 2019 gala, 2019.

Yes, and I should not have done it. Like this was squarely the job of the president. And I was not the president, and I did it anyways. So then 2020 comes along. I am the president. I do it. 2021 comes along. I’m the president I do it. And then I’m still doing it, and I am not the president. I am the immediate past president.

And I feel like My fuck-up is not properly preparing my incoming leaders that this is going to be their job. Yeah. because I don’t have time for it. I was up till almost midnight last night making the 120 slides for this thing, like having to make like the background. Like all the things have to download the pictures for all the submissions, put them in the PowerPoint, put them in order and I’m still not done. I got that. I got like the award stuff done, but I still need to go back and do all like the sponsorships and like the timing and all that stuff. And then I was like scrolling through a picture and I realized, oh shit, I got to actually make the envelopes at the, like, who won? So like they can say, and the winner is, and it’s like all this stuff.

And I’m like, I need to create some kind of document that I can hand off to somebody and I’m, can’t do it again this year, but I’m like so annoyed that I’m still doing it. 

Courtney: I feel like a lot of your fuck ups, if I were just to say, have the theme of overcommitment slash lack of boundaries.

Dana: I don’t even think it’s an overcommitment. I think it’s just like, not properly preparing people to step into my shoes. 

Courtney: Yeah, 

Dana: which is my fault at the end of the day. I can’t blame anybody for it, yeah. But my own self. 

Courtney: I personally just feel like, and I’m sure you feel the exact same way. Like it’s just like the pace of it all. Like my fuck up is literally the pace. I mean, I just like, can’t keep up, like, I’m, didn’t have like hardly any meal planned. Like I made dinner last night. I was so proud of myself.

Like first time I was home for in a while, but I remember like, what was it? Tuesday night, Tuesday, we were driving around Wednesday, Tuesday. Like, I didn’t have anything planned for dinner. I didn’t know what time I was going to be home with the kids. And I felt like that was a bust, you know, like just scrambling at the end of the day. 

My eight-year-old requires like early bedtime. We didn’t have dinner until like, after seven o’clock. And of course he’s like bouncing off the walls at that point. It’s like probably moments like that where I’m like, am fucking up as a mother. 

Dana: I, well, I think if in the same vein, you say I’m over committed at work? You’re over committed at home. Like it’s the same thing as like, what can you train in your household and in your team to take some of these things that are, that should not be fully your responsibility.

Courtney: Yeah I will say as a, as a check mark in that particular column, both of my older children folded or washed, folded, and put away a load of clothes, like their, a load of clothes this week. Like they’re very like fastidious about it. Mason. It’s like, I’m going to wash my clothes. Like every, every three days or whatever. And really like three of his like outfits take up a whole washing machine, big, but he’s like very committed to it. 

So it was like super impressed with that. So check in that column yes but we’re Def we’re working on it, working on those definitely like systems and processes and how can we minimize, 

Dana: I mean, it’s even down to like and you say you do this too. like, you kind of like, this is what the week looks like, but like every day before at any point, I always text or call Sam and say, what’s your afternoon, what’s it looking like cause it’s variable. Like he could be fine and he could get dinner going, or he could not be fine. He was like, no, I can’t do it. I’m not, I’m not out of the office til seven, but before I used to always just assume it was me, I always would assume that I was one that had to do it all the time.

And then I would get home and he would be like, there, I’m like, well, why didn’t you start dinner? He’s like, oh, I didn’t realize you needed, you need me to start dinner. Right. And it, and it really is because I just assumed. I made the assumptions. And I saw this when we were driving on Tuesday and you’re like, we stop and get a pizza? And I was like, is depart driving home from work. He’s like, oh, he doesn’t get out till 6:30. And sure enough, not like five minutes later, he calls like, hey, I got out of work early. And you’re like, oh, I want to pick up some pizzas. But all I can think of is like, what if he didn’t call you? And you wouldn’t have known, right. So it’s like this, like 

Courtney: He can’t talk when he’s at work. How would I know?

Dana: But like you just texts to say. Like he’s not answering, you’re just making the assumption, but like, don’t just assume that everything. Is on your shoulders. That there’s someone else that can help relieve that for you. Giving you a little therapy session. 

Courtney: Thanks everyone for gathering best today, to talk about the hustle for our episode with Billy, we are drinking a mezcal Negroni. We hope you get a chance to make it this week and cheers to leaning into those oh shit moments. To learn more and connect with Billy, you can find him on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram at billywarden. And you can learn more about GBW Strategies by visiting gbwstrategies.com 

Dana: To learn more about our hustles, you can check us out on the gram at canddevents at thebradfordnc and at hustleandgather. If you’re interested in our speaking training or consulting, please look us up at hustleandgather.com.

Courtney: And if you love this show, we would be more than honored if you left us a rating and review, 

Dana: This podcast is a production of Earfluence. I’m Dana 

Courtney: and I’m Courtney, 

Dana: and we’ll talk to you next time on Hustle and Gather.