Bo Porter on Social Injustice, Diversity, and a Life in Major League Baseball

Bo Porter has spent his career in Major League Baseball – as a player, coach, manager, and now announcer.  On today’s episode, Bo talks about how he got into playing Little League, life in the show, diversity in MLB, Black Lives Matter, and how he wants to be remembered.

Bo Porter Enterprise
CORE Magazine

Dr. Debby Stroman: Welcome to if you only knew with Dr. Debby Stroman and I am joined by a new friend who has very quickly become a lifelong friend, Mr. Bo Porter. Mr. Bo Porter, in the world of baseball. Welcome, Bo. Thank you for joining me today.

Bo Porter: Yes, Dr. Deb, I’m excited to be on your show.  I’ve followed your work and like you said, a new friend that had become a lifelong friend.  It was immediate from our connection that– I can tell that we were like-minded  in a lot of our thoughts and commentary. So, the invitation to join you on this show was an easy one for me.

Dr. Debby Stroman: Well, thank you. So we have to start at the beginning, tell us where it all started. What brought you to sports? Did you just come out of the womb as an athlete? Tell us about the beginnings.

Bo Porter: Wow! That’s going to take me all the way back to my Rick city, Newark, New Jersey days. And, when I think back to where it all started for me. I grew up in Newark, New Jersey, which at the time in which I was growing up, you talk about negative influences being all around you from,  drug abuse, drug addiction, gang violence.

It all was around us growing up as kids. In our community, we didn’t even have Little League Baseball. So, the kids, we would play in a church parking lot.  And then you could think about a residential neighborhood, residential community. The church parking lot was situated to where I would hit the ball over the church parking lot fence for home runs, and it will break windows of the residents that lived across the street.

Well, one of the homes was owned by a man by the name of Mr. Taylor. So, Mr. Taylor would sit on his porch and he would watch us play pole to pole football in the middle of the street, which is very dangerous, obviously with cars coming in a residential area. So, Mr. Taylor worked on the other side of town in South Ward at a bank. And it was on his lunch break that he walked down the street during his lunch break, and they did have little league on the other side of town.

It was called South Ward Little League. Mr. Taylor saw a flyer for little league tryouts, grabbed the flyer. Brought the flyer back to my mom. He said, “Mrs. Porter.” He said, ” I sit on my porch and I watched these kids play. It’s pretty evident to me that Bo is better than most of these kids. Have you ever thought about putting him into little league?”

My mom looked at him and my mom had me at 16 years old. She was a teenage parent, raising a little boy on her own. And my mom looked at him. She gave him all of the excuses of why I couldn’t play. One, I don’t have a car. How’s he going to get there? I’m pretty sure there’s a fee. Mr. Taylor looked at her and he said, “Well, how about I agree to pay the fee? And I agree to take Bo twice a week when he has to be over there. Will you let him play?” And my mom goes, “I mean, well, if you’re going to take down all the barriers, absolutely.” Long story short, Mr. Taylor takes me over there for tryouts. I’m selected with the number one pick by the team that finished in last place the year before the Dodgers.

My coach is a man by the name of Mr. Miller. We go on to win the next three championships, at South Ward Little League, but probably the most influential point and turning point in that whole ordeal was Mr. Miller, my little league baseball coach, was an avid Yankee fan. He worked in New York City. His job gave him 15 complimentary tickets. That’s why you’ve heard me say this before Dr. Deb, “The untraveled eye can’t see.”

Dr. Debby Stroman: Yes.

Bo Porter: Mr. Miller decided to take the 12 kids on his little league baseball team to Yankee Stadium. I sat there on June 26th in Yankee stadium as a nine-year-old. My eyes were about as big as watermelons. At that point, I didn’t know exactly what I wanted to do. But I knew what I didn’t want to do.

I didn’t want to be a drug dealer. I didn’t want to use drugs. I didn’t want to be in a gang. I didn’t want to do any of the negative things that were happening around me. So, but sitting there in Yankee stadium, I mean, something just came over me. It was like, “Wow, I want to be a major league baseball player.”

And I left Yankee stadium that day. And you talk about a different kind of motivation. I mean, I was. I was not a bad kid, but I didn’t really have a lot of direction at that time. And now that I had this, you know, my eyes, you know, set on playing major league baseball, I mean, you talk about my work ethic improved, I was already a good student, but now I’m thinking about, okay, if I want to go to college, I gotta make sure I pass all of my classes.

So now I’m trying to get A’s in every class. So when I go back to where it all started, people were asking me all the time, you know, why is philanthropy so important? You know, to me, and why I’m so adamant about helping people. It’s because I know I wouldn’t be sitting here today if it wasn’t for a kind gesture by a neighbor who paid $25 for me to sign up to play little league baseball. And did he know that everything that would transpire after that would happen? No, he didn’t. He just did it out of the kindness of his heart. And to cap this story off after that, we fast-forward, this was 2015.

I get a call from the mayor of Newark. Mayor Ras Baraka, and what used to be known as Green Acres Park where South Ward Little League resided when we were all kids is now Marquis “Bo” Porter Sports Complex. And it houses the after-school programs and all of the little league programs, Little League Baseball to Small Fry Basketball to Pop Warner Football for all the kids in Newark, New Jersey.

Dr. Debby Stroman: What– this, Bo it’s a wrap. I think our discussion is over. That was just amazing. Just amazing. And to think that it started with awareness. Because the gentleman was paying attention to what was going on on that field and watched enough to say that it was little Bo who was hitting all these home runs and then–

Bo Porter: Breaking, breaking his windows.

Dr. Debby Stroman: And breaking windows and then the kindness to say, “This young man has potential. And I want to give him that exposure. I want him to travel. And to see what else is going on.” Wow. That, that is amazing. That’s amazing. So tell me more about your relationships with a particular coach or parents or relatives that have helped you out as a youngster.

Bo Porter: You know, that’s why for me, sports is just, it is this institution of higher learning. And when you think about sports and me in particular, I was raised by a single parent. So my coaches pretty much became my father figure. And I’ll go all the way back to my little league coach, Mr. Miller, who at the time was very influential in my life because he was that male figure that I just spent a lot of time with.

And Mr. Taylor started bringing me to little league practice, but that transition to Mr. Miller, who’s now my coach, he started picking me up and dropping me off. So we just developed a great relationship. And that transition to Mr. Bill Hicks, who ended up being, he was the all-star coach at South Ward Little League.

Well, he goes on and he becomes my high school baseball coach. So he becomes like a father figure. Same thing with my, my Pop Warner football coach, coach Leon Gro became my high school football coach. So when I think about, the coaches in my life, I would venture to tell you to say they have been some of the most influential people in my overall development, and that has been consistent all the way from South Ward Little League all the way to the major leagues, all the way to my post career as well.

I think about all of the coaches from Dusty Baker and Willie Randolph and Bobby Cox and Fredi Gonzales and Ron Washington. The executives that I’ve been able to learn from him and have mentor me like a Bill Parcells and John Hart. All of them have kind of played a fatherly role in my life. And, and when I look at sports, I think sports provide people that are in leadership positions an opportunity to be that type of mentor and bigger for the people that they’re blessed to lead.

Dr. Debby Stroman: Well, well-stated for sure. And certainly I know many people who are athletes, coaches, people who are close to the game, know about these wonderful, wonderful things that happen that don’t necessarily catch the eye of the media or someone or a fan, but it’s family it’s support.

It’s all those things that, you know, young athletes need. And I’m so, so happy that you’re involved with such a rich history as a young young man, and then be able to pay that forward. But before we go forward, I want to talk a little bit more about those lessons, in particular relationships, the power of relationships, you know, I tell my students, “It’s not what you know, it’s not who you know, it’s who knows you on a favorable basis.” And your network is very, very extensive. And so let’s talk about the power of relationships and how they’ve helped you in your career.

Bo Porter: I think when you look at the power of relationships, even as we look at social injustice and inequality,  as it relates to executive hire, and as it relates to whether it’s the NCAA, whether it’s Major League Baseball, NFL, NBA, all of the big entities that are capitalistic enterprises. And when you start to look at the small number of minority owners within those industries. And when you look at the fact that relationships play a major role in that, I think that– it’s very important that we foster those authentic relationships along the way. I’m a very personable human being.

I treat all people the same, so it’s one of those things that I’ve always made sure that I am a good friend first and foremost, before I expect anyone to do anything for me, it’s more, what, what can I bring to the table to help this relationship grow? And I’ve always taken that approach.

I think that the best thing that we can do from a networking standpoint is to help each other get into these different spaces by using our networks and sharing our networks with each other. Because you never know when you’re going to be able to call on someone else that can help push you over the top of something that you can very well deserve. But , my grandfather used to tell me this a long time ago, “It’s not what you say when you get in the room, it’s who gets you into the room.”

Dr. Debby Stroman: Yes.

Bo Porter: And when you think about that, it’s so true. I remember when I was young and on the managerial trail after I retired from playing and I got into coaching and it was Bobby Cox and Dusty Baker and Fredi Gonzalez that, that really just inspired me.

They said, “Look, I watch you from afar, and the players really respect you. You really need to think about standing a game in a leadership capacity.” And so when I first started coaching, I was excited. I was a third base coach of the Florida Marlins at the time.

And I reached out to Frank Robinson because him and I would always connect even when he was still managing. So, Franklin and I would always either go to breakfast or lunch if we were playing against them or if he was in LA and I happened to be in LA playing the Dodgers. So we go to breakfast one day and Frank just asked me, he said, “So how’s it going? How you enjoying coaching third base?” And I said to Frank sitting across the table, I said, well, I said, “Doin’ pretty good.” I said , “There are some things that I want to get better at. I said, “In short order, I want to be the best third base coach in Major League Baseball.”

And Frank Robinson looked at me and he said, “Why be the best third base coach when you can manage the team?” And I said, I kind of like looked at him like it wasn’t like, that was a thought in my mind, but Frank Robinson embedded that in me, implanted that thought in my mind. And at that time, I hadn’t really started to look at the game through the lens of a manager, but it was that very conversation that actually led me down that path to say, “Okay, I need to start looking at this game in this totality from the managerial standpoint.

And then what Frank did, was he doubled down on not just saying that to me, it was the next Winter meetings when he invited me to breakfast with him and Bud Selig, who was the commissioner at the time. And Frank Robinson did that because he felt like Bud Selig needed to know me because when you start to look at minority practice, hiring practices and owners looking for people to interview, Frank Robinson made it a point to say, “Mr. Selig, you need to meet this young man. Because as we look around our game and I have taken an opportunity to mentor Bo. I know that he’s ready to manage Major League Baseball, but I don’t think other people know that.”

So, by him making that introduction and Bud Selig being able to sit across from me and us have a candid conversation about everything involved with Major League Baseball and him able to basically interview me himself, it gave him the confidence, once the conversation came back up. And jobs started to open and he’s on the phone with different owner, he’s saying, “You know what? You may need to sit down with this Bo Porter guy. I had breakfast with him and Frank Robinson, Frank talks real highly of him. And I was really impressed.” So when I got into the room of those interviews, I think relationships go a long way of, once you’re in the room, and the person sitting across from you or the people that are engaged in that conversation, how intently they are willing to listen.

Dr. Debby Stroman: Absolutely. I think that’s a great example of the power of a favorable relationship. You’re having that relationship with Frank Robinson, and then Frank Robinson having that relationship with the commissioner and then putting that together. Now, you just started transitioning to social justice and racial justice. And we came together, we met through the Advancement of Blacks In Sports. And so I want to ask you, what’s your “why”, what is your “why” in joining the ABIS team?

Bo Porter: Well, I’ll start with, I don’t think it’s no time like the present. I think when you, when you look at the, the unrest that has taken place in our country, I think we all can point to different aspects of different times in our lives where we felt like we’ve been discriminated against, or the color of our skin may have played a role in a decision being made.

And I think it comes a time where we all have to just take responsibility for not just what has happened throughout the course of time. But what is happening right now? And my “why” is simply this. I sat down and we were watching all of the protests and everything that was taking place with George Floyd.

And I’m on the phone with my grandmother. So my grandmother, who’s 85 years old. She’s on the phone. We’re on speaker phone. So my grandmother is on the phone. My son is sitting there and my mom is sitting there. We’re watching the protests and the rioting and looting and everything that’s going on.

And my grandmother is talking about the social injustice that took place back in her time in the thirties and forties. My mom then starts to talk about what took place in the sixties and seventies. And then I started talking about the Rodney King riots of the eighties and the nineties and my son who’s sitting there, he’s looked at me and he said, he said, he said, “Daddy.”

He said, “”Gran-Gran”is talking about the thirties and forties. “Gran” is talking about the sixties and the seventies. You’re talking about the nineties and it’s 2020. Why hasn’t somebody done something about this?”

Dr. Debby Stroman: Wow.

Bo Porter: My son is 12 years old. And when I say that hit home for me, and as a black man who has been in professional sports and has seen a lot, that conversation, I think answers my “why”. It was like, what if Martin Luther King said, “You know what? This is not my problem.” So it was at that very moment that I became even more intentional in my desire to want to help. And when I say help, I started looking at our country. And I asked myself the question, “What is needed here?”

What is the problem?” And to me, I think the biggest problem is that our country needs hope. We need to adopt the acronym that I’ve given to hope, “Helping Other People Excel.” I think the issue that we are dealing with is that there’s not enough people, that their goal is just to help other people. And if we look at life through that lens, what can I do to help other people? I think it will begin to solve a lot of the age long issues that we deal with in our society.

Dr. Debby Stroman: Well, definitely that’s a very, very powerful acronym and thinking about hope and how we help individuals, but also how we help other individuals versus just trying to give them something to make them more comfortable in a bad situation. And so I think about all those athlete activists today, and we see them in basketball. We see them in football. And if you’re comfortable, would you answer the question, how come we’re not seeing more of them in baseball?

Bo Porter: I think it’s real simple, Dr. Deb, I think when you look at baseball and the dwindling numbers of blacks that play, that play the sport. Even when you start to look at people of color, a lot of times, those people of color are coming from Latin countries.  And some of them make the transition and they become very fluent in English.

Others don’t make the transition. So where they’re really comfortable speaking to social injustice because they’re just not comfortable with the English language.  They know what they feel, they know what they see, they know what they witnessed, they’re just not comfortable discussing it. And when you go to the black ballplayers, I think a lot of times when you look at majority of these teams are owned by white men.

And when you think about the repercussions that may come with speaking out, I think a lot of times people look at the repercussions or the possibility of repercussions and they say exactly what I said about five minutes ago. What if Dr. King said, “this is not my problem.”  And they take the road less traveled of, “I’m just not going to say anything.”

Dr. Debby Stroman: Yeah.

Bo Porter: And to me, it’s not, this is when you look at social injustice and inequality, because I can go to both ends of the spectrum. And I have in my commentary and what I mean by both ends of the spectrum– I said this to a group of black people that I was, that I was speaking to, as it related to George Floyd, riots, and Black Lives Matter and them standing up and saying, “This has to stop.” Well, I went to the other side of that and I said, “You know what? I grew up in Newark, New Jersey and from drug users to drug abuse, to gang violence, to armed robbery, there was not one white person robbing anybody in my community. They were all black people.”

So my point to that group of people that I was speaking with, if we’re going to say, “Black Lives Matter”, then stop selling drugs, stop using drugs, stop tearing down your own community, stop robbing your own people, because if we want the others to not do unjust things to us, we cannot do unjust things to each other.

So it’s a two-way street, but I think a lot of times that people that are in a position of power to speak, they more so think about the impact that it’s going to have on them individually. Then, the impact it can have on the collective group. That’s why I admire LeBron James to no end. Because he has taken his platform and he has used it for good.

He’s used it to make great awareness to a lot of the issues that we all know exist. And don’t think for one minute that white people don’t know that these issues exist, what they want is they want them to just go away. It’s not like they’re saying, let me help be a part of the solution in which, when we get everybody to the table wanting to be a part of the solution, that’s when real transformational change will start to happen because racism is a humanity problem.

Dr. Debby Stroman: Well, I’ll tell you, you said a lot in that, there’s no doubt that crime is happening in communities  all across the country. And certainly we have to look at the conditions that make black people respond in a way where you give up hope and you go to drugs and you drink alcohol. The systemic and institutional disparities. The treatment that people receive from our systems and institutions oftentimes create these particular outcomes that affect all of us. And so what I’m talking about is “proximity-crime”, white people do things to other white people because that’s who they’re nearby. And black people do things to black people because that’s who they’re nearby and brown people as well.

But, I’m also interested in the white baseball player because you have white players in other leagues who are stepping up and speaking out. And certainly I know you can’t speak for them, but I’m very hopeful that ABIS in our work, in that it is led by black people, but our team is very diverse. We have white people, we have brown people, we have black people involved in ABIS that we can help create that awareness and show the inequities to which, to your point that people want to just say, “Hey, just go away.” That we’re going to continue to work and build upon that. And so you have a platform. Tell us about your role doing the Major League Baseball games as a broadcaster. What brings you joy? What do you get frustrated with? Do you ever feel like you want to get out on the field and turn back the clock?

Bo Porter: Well, I get a lot of joy in, in broadcasting. I think it allows me to be close enough to the game where I still get to be a part of the day-to-day and the strategic aspect of, of breaking the game down. But I want to backtrack real quick before I move forward.

Dr. Debby Stroman: Please.

Bo Porter: When you look at some of the things that happen in baseball, and I’m going to use the LA Dodgers as an example. Mookie Betts, who is one of the top five players in our game today. It was very satisfying, I’ll use that word, when Mookie Betts decided that he wasn’t going to play because of everything that had happened. And you heard Clayton Kershaw, who is one of the most well-respected players in our game as well. And Kershaw came out and said, “Well, if Mookie Betts is not playing, we’re not playing.”

Dr. Debby Stroman: Excellent.

Bo Porter: So there was support for the black players that took a stance. There was support throughout the league. When you looked around baseball, even with the Washington Nationals, the team that I broadcast for. All of those guys came out, they had Black Lives T-shirts on, they supported the movement. I don’t think it was as vocal–

Dr. Debby Stroman: Yeah.

Bo Porter:  As basketball, so to speak or football, so to speak. But when you look at both of those leagues, those leagues are dominated by black players. Baseball is dominated by white players or Latin American players. So when you look at the small percentage of black players in Major League Baseball, I think that’s why you didn’t see the large protests or you didn’t get, I guess those sound bites that you would get from the other sports, because it’s so many.

Dr. Debby Stroman: But you also make me think that there’s another reason why. It’s because of the media. When you think about the media that covers football and the media that covers basketball, pro basketball, it’s more diverse. It’s still a far away from where it needs to be. Absolutely. We know media is dominated by white people, but in baseball in particular, there aren’t that many prominent brown or black broadcasters in baseball like there are in other sports. Tell me if I’m wrong.

Bo Porter: No, you’re  absolutely right. And not only is it not that many broadcasters, even when you go to the beat writers and the people that write for the teams.

Dr. Debby Stroman: Okay.

Bo Porter: And you have to remember, they write for the team.

Dr. Debby Stroman: Yes, sir.

Bo Porter: And when you talk about controlling the narrative, the people that are writing for these teams, they’re concerned about their job. So they’re going to make sure that they don’t put anything out there or speak to something that quote unquote is going to put the team into a negative light in which they don’t want to be in. So, all of the things that we’re talking about starts with this– controlling the narrative.

Dr. Debby Stroman: Yes.

Bo Porter: And when you start to look at the work of ABIS, I think that’s one of the things that we have made perfectly clear. That we are not going to let someone else control the narrative. Because the ability to speak the truth and what’s going on and not have it delivered with a slant, I think it becomes very valuable when you’re caught. When you, when you’re talking about moving this ball down the field.

Dr. Debby Stroman:  Yes. And so you’re an entrepreneur and you have lots of control. So tell us about Bo Porter Enterprises.

Bo Porter: Bo Porter Enterprise, Dr. Deb, it’s a business conglomerate, but I will say this at the, at the core. And I’ll use core. At the core of, of every business adventure that I’ve ever decided to get into, at the end of the day, I asked myself this very question, how is this going to help other people?

So whether it, whether it is me authoring a book, whether it is public speaking, whether it is starting a multimedia group, whether it is the launch of Core Magazine. Every entity of Bo Porter Enterprise is centered around trying to help other people grow. Our Champions of Leadership.

When you think about leadership, leadership incumbents, everything. And when I started Champions of Leadership a couple of years ago, it was as I started to do more public speaking. And I realized by talking to, and being in a C-suite and speaking to CEOs and CFOs and Presidents of companies and organizations and them bringing me in to actually do leadership seminars with their upper level management–

I realized just how important leadership was. So, that’s the basis of Bo Porter Enterprise.  I’m a first generation entrepreneur. I’m always looking for opportunities to grow. And I think when you look at Bo Porter Enterprise, our main goal is to help other people grow.

Dr. Debby Stroman: Wonderful. Now I can’t let you go without talking about COVID-19. We’re in a pandemic, and I’ve said to friends, it’s like being in a sci-fi movie. And so you’ve been at every level. You’ve been the athlete, you’ve been the coach, you’ve been the manager. What do you say in particular, let’s start with the athletes. What do you say to them? How do you keep them encouraged? How do you keep them going during a very, very challenging time period, whether it’s college or pro?

Bo Porter: Well, first and foremost, I think when you start talking about COVID-19 and you look at just how it hit our country and the implications that came with it, I think you have to put health and safety first. I think when you look around and you start to talk about the revenue being lost in the capital component of it, I think you can very easily and very quickly lose sight that lives are in danger. So my message to any player, whether it is high school, college, professional– is, make sure that wherever you’re at, that the entity, whether it’s a university, whether it’s an organization, that they are putting your health and safety first. That will be known right away. By whatever it is they’re asking you to do.

Dr. Debby Stroman: Yes.

Bo Porter: They’ll tell you where their priorities lie. And from there, I think you can make the decision of whether or not you’re in the right place. I think that COVID-19, to me has exposed a lot of people. I think it exposed a lot of people. Well, for who they really are, and what they’re really about. From a company and corporation standpoint, whether it is not taking care of their employees, whether it’s jumping the gun before all the information was gathered.

Dr. Debby Stroman: Yes.

Bo Porter: I think we’ve found out a lot from a business structure standpoint of just how powerful sports is to our country. When you start to look at the capitalistic enterprise of sports and the ripple effect of companies and businesses that are laying people off and furloughing people based on the fact that you know what, we can’t get fans into the stadium, or we can’t, get all of our revenue shared that we would get from the networks.

And I say that to say this, I really hope that athletes are paying close attention and realize how much power they really have. When you start to look at it, I remember when I was Director of Player Development for Major League Baseball Players Association, and I gave a presentation to the players. And in that presentation, I shared with them. I said, “What you guys need to realize is this.” I said, “How many of you have seen Beyonce and Jay Z in concert?” And, a large percentage of the room raised their hand. I said, “Now I’ve been to that concert. One of the best concerts I’ve ever been to. Okay.”

I said, “So if you paid $3,000 for these tickets to go see Beyonce and Jay Z. And they have all of the acts that are leading up to Beyonce and Jay Z taking the stage, and all of a sudden, at nine-thirty, when Beyonce and Jay Z come out, somebody comes on the stage and they say, ” Sorry,  there’s been a situation here, Beyonce and Jay Z are not going to perform tonight.”

I said, “Tell me what your first reaction is going to be.” And every last one of them, a man to a man they go, “I want my money back.” I said, “Why do you want your money back?” I said, ” You were there from seven o’clock to nine-thirty. You saw a bunch of people perform.” And they said, “No, no, no, no, no, but that wasn’t Beyonce and Jay Z.” So the moral to the story, the message I was trying to get across to them. Stop underestimating the power that you have. You’re Beyonce and Jay Z.

Dr. Debby Stroman: Yes.

Bo Porter: And if you don’t show up, you know what people are going to say. I want my money back. So you may not own the team, but you are the number one commodity. And that goes for all athletes. When you start to look at this capitalistic enterprise, at the end of the day, the people, whether it’s the network, whether it is someone buying a ticket and coming into arena or stadium, they’re coming because they want to see the talent.

Dr. Debby Stroman: The main event.

Bo Porter: The main event. And you have to look at yourself in those lens.

Dr. Debby Stroman: Well, that’s definitely some pearls of wisdom that you dropped there. It’s about educating and understanding your power. And then it’s about organizing and saying, “We’re going to work together and talk about what we need to do around our power.”

Bo Porter: Yes, absolutely.

Dr. Debby Stroman: And so, Bo this has been great. You know, you’ve got to come back and talk more with me, but I want to ask you when–

Bo Porter: I will come back anytime, Dr. Deb.

Dr. Debby Stroman: Absolutely. When it’s all over. and you’re sitting in your rocking chair, watching your favorite team play. If you reflect back on your career, what do you want people to remember you for?

Bo Porter: I want to be remembered one as, as a man of character. As, as a person who never cheated the game, and the person who gave more to the game than they received.

Dr. Debby Stroman: And that is certainly a lot. That is a lot. Thank you again, Mr. Bo Porter. You’ve been listening to “If You Only Knew with Dr. Debby Stroman.”

Bo Porter: Thank you, Dr. Deb. This has been an absolute pleasure.

Dr. Debby Stroman: Thank you.

Full Episode Transcript

If You Only Knew…with Dr. Debby Stroman is edited and produced by Earfluence, and brought to you by The Diversity Movement.

Intro and outro music provided by Soteria Shepperson.

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