Ryann Dowdy: But so I grew up in that space. Again, never intended to be an entrepreneur had one of those like, moments, it was 2017 I just had a baby, I was back to work. I was director sales for digital marketing agency, I was growing my own team, we were a $4 million business. Everything was great. And I was like, this isn’t awesome, like it’s supposed to feel different, right. When you find your dream job, and all these things are good. So I just went on an escapade of talking to people and was introduced to entrepreneurship, specifically online entrepreneurship, where you could leverage your intellectual property and your skills and all these things. Because to me, entrepreneurship meant like what I knew and the clients I supported, it was brick and mortar, it was, it was product based, it was all this other stuff. And I was like I don’t have those skills. But I do know a lot about sales. And what I learned this was before the great resignation had a name, that women were leaving the corporate world in droves, they were in similar situations, to me didn’t necessarily want to, you know, leave working all together, but wanting to work on their own terms. But the problem was sales was not their strong suit, it was not something they had learned to do something they’ve been taught to do. In fact, most female entrepreneurs, I find have a very unhealthy relationship with sales and kind of hate it, which is not a good thing for the revenue driver in your business. 

So my first adventure in entrepreneurship was a program we called it the uncensored sales accelerator. And our tagline was that we helped high achieving women leave their nine to five did that for two years, literally helped dozens of women quit their day jobs, come home, take back control of their time and make as much money if not more, you know, then they were making in their corporate jobs. And through that had hired a business coach, and she and her businesses blowing up the time and she knew that I trained sales teams in my corporate life. And so she was like, hey, I need to hire six salespeople this summer. I don’t have time to train them. Can you train them for me? So I just came in as a consultant to train her team. And through that social sellers Academy was born when people were asking like, hey, that’s amazing. You have a sales team. How do you train these people? How do you have time to do that sales isn’t my superpower, and so Social Sellers Academy was born, and here we are. 

Dana Kadwell: Wow, that’s awesome. There are some lots of questions. But I think my first question that when you said that females have an unhealthy relationship with sales, I tell them, I would love to hear a little bit more about that, like what you have found and why you think that is?

Ryann Dowdy: So when we first started the business we had a Facebook group and we would ask people what they thought of when they thought of sales like that was one of the entry questions to the Facebook group. And the answers guys that we got was slimy, gross, use car salesmen manipulative, annoying, pushy, salesy, greedy, like all of there was not a positive word in there really, about sales. 

So most women think that it or they we have this terrible connotation of what sales is what it means how to do it. So that’s what I mean, by unhealthy relationship, it was just this thing that there was a lot of resistance and doing you know, most people I found have been sold to, in a way at some point in time that did not feel good to them. And therefore they were like, I don’t want to do that. If that’s selling, I don’t want that. And so you know, then the narrative starts and the story starts. And I mean, we saw a lot of that I still see a lot of that even in sales reps who are hired in sales jobs.

Courtney Hopper: Do you think that the rise of like that kind of multi-level marketing like the MLM groups paved that relationship a little bit because it does target more women than it does men you’re thinking, talking about like, like… 

Dana Kadwell: Are you saying this paved it in a positive way or negative way?

Courtney Hopper: In a negative way, because we’ve all had that, hey girl,

Ryann Dowdy: We do our role was, no, hey, girl messages, we did not teach that that was not a thing. I think that that was part of it for some women that they were like, again, if that’s what I have to do, but like I found even in my sales story, because one of the exercises we would have people do is they have to they break the word sales and the top piece of paper and it was just brain dump all the things that come up. And sometimes the MLM space and direct sales space would come up, and it would go like way back. Like the salespeople that used to call your house in the middle of dinner, when you were a kid and what your parents said about it, or you know, when your dad told I mean, I very specifically remember I went to buy a car when I was at age of 22. And I was living in Orlando, Florida, my parents live in Kansas City and my card like broke down for like, the last time I was a dad, we’re done here, I need to go buy a car. And he was like, do not go to the car dealership alone, take somebody with you. And I’m like, and he was gonna try to take advantage of you. And they’re going to try to talk you into something you don’t need and all this other stuff. I didn’t listen. And I went to the car dealership alone, and I was very proud of the deal I negotiated. 

But for most people, that is what we were taught you know, don’t do that. You don’t want to do that. And so you think of the things that we buy every day think of insurance sales, and you know, car sales and all those different things. It was you know, telemarketers calling your house so it’s I think it even precedes the MLM direct sales movement if I’m honest. 

Courtney Hopper: Yeah, I totally agree with that. But I love the fact. I do think that people do have an unhealthy connotation with sales, but yet, everybody wants to sell a product. Like if you have a business, you’re selling something like regardless of what type of business it is, it’s sales, right? So if you don’t have sales, no one’s buying your product. No one’s buying your building. No one’s buying your, you know, your mental prowess. None of it. You have to sell all of it. But yeah, everybody has this very negative thought about sales people. 

Dana Kadwell: Yeah. And I think it’s really interesting because I think that I do I think the, hey girl messages are getting less and less people are realizing that’s not the way to sell it. But it’s so interesting, like every time that you get on Instagram or something and you’re like, oh my God, I love this lipstick. Like we do our, what we’re digging this week. And we all these, like, these products that we love, like whether it’s like a handheld vacuum, whether it is like listening to a new song, like whatever the reason is, it’s like, Hey, this is like we’re totally vibing with this this week, and we’re basically selling that product, we’re not making any money off the product. But that because people love to sell, leave in. People love to sell what they believe in. 

Courtney Hopper: And what I would like to mention that Dana does buy her hair product from MLM.

Dana Kadwell: Because I love them. 

Courtney Hopper: She does. So as she’s disparagingly talking,

Dana Kadwell: I’m not disparagingly talking. 

Courtney Hopper: I’m just saying she does actually participate.

Dana Kadwell: I’m just saying I think it’s getting better. But I’m just saying like, I think that everyone has been turned off at a time by someone randomly called reaching out to you. And I think that there was a time I think it was you know, 5 to 10 years ago or that that’s all you got. Like you had to talk to a girl from high school the first time they messaged you, it’s like, Hey, do you want to buy some Rodan and Fields? I’m like, No, I don’t want to buy Rodan and Fields. I don’t want to, thank you.

Ryann Dowdy: Yeah, yeah. Now, I think that’s a big part of it. And it’s like, I buy a lot of stuff about MLM. Like I’m not mad about the model at all. It’s just, yeah, that strategy. And it did it one time it worked, you know, and we actually wind up teaching a lot of like cold outreach strategy and stuff. But again, we teach it in a very personalized way because what I learned we polled our audience multiple times and asked, what did they not like about cold outreach? And it was almost always the cold pitch, right? It was somebody who was trying to sell you something. And so like, our number one rule is like, we don’t sell anything to anybody without permission. So it is, you know, if you’re gonna reach out to somebody on Instagram and be like, Hey, I love your brand. I love it. Do I think your venue is beautiful? I love what you’ve created in the wedding space. I just really like your content, right? Like, that’s okay to start conversations with people in that way. But what most people are used to getting is a pitch, right? They’re like, and this does not just happen in the MLM space. Like, I don’t know if you guys spend any time on LinkedIn, but it’s real aggressive out there. 

I get people trying to sell me stuff all the time. And I’m like, and again to me, I don’t mind the cold outreach, start a conversation, build a relationship, but don’t pitch me something and assume that you know anything about me or that I have the need for your product or the budget for your product or in the decision maker for your product. Like, that’s where I think the breakdown is in cold outreach, because I believe that cold outreach is alive and well and it can do very well if you do it differently than everybody else.

Courtney Hopper: I like to tease Dana about her MLM hair. I just, it’s one of my favorite things to do. But I think honestly, people are being pitched now, like sales are so savvy now that people are being pitched before, like beyond before you even have that first conversation, right? They don’t even know that they’re being pitched. And like even thinking about like, the Brad Bird, we’re pitching all the time, right. Like with Instagram, and our messaging and our email group or whatever, constantly pitching. We’re constantly like creating that FOMO like you want to be here. 

So they are people are constantly being sold to. And I think that that is great, because I feel like it feels like more natural, it makes sales a little bit more natural. But I also think people are feeling like, am I being manipulated here like I’m constantly being sold to? So like, how do you differentiate those two?

Ryann Dowdy: So from the good, let’s talk about it from the consumer perspective being sold to the answer is yes. Every time you leave the house, the answer is yes. So if you’re like, am I being sold to? Yes. Like and like you said, I don’t care if it’s your lipstick. I don’t care if it’s like, where’d you get your sweater, or tell me about your event venue, right? Like, we’re all being pitched. But for us, as business owners, as marketers, as salespeople because you know, sit entrepreneurship is sales. You know, for me it’s we make offers, and sometimes the answer’s no. And sometimes the answer’s yes. Right. And we’re big on like, we don’t manipulate, we don’t trick, we don’t force, we don’t do that, that doesn’t work those strategies, they don’t work anymore because people are more skeptical. Right? It takes longer to build rapport, it takes longer to build relationships than it used to. So do manipulative sales tactics work totally? But I mean, focus that like look at the number of refunds that those companies that are using their sales tax are probably awarding, versus a real like long term healthy sales strategy. And that’s actually a lot of what we teach is, is playing the long game, right? Like most of us are so busy and moving so fast, that you know, we’re only focused on what’s the deal I can close today. And tomorrow, instead of thinking about what’s the deal, I’m gonna close six months, 12 months, 18 months, 24 months down the road. 

So for us, it’s like, you know, if the timing is right, the timing isn’t right, I’m not going to try to convince you of that. I can’t want it more than you do. So, you know, when people are like, I see it more from the entrepreneur being fearful of like, manipulating, and like you can’t talk anybody in anything like we’re two people. You know, nobody pulled out their credit card on accident. It just doesn’t work that way. Somebody should tell stripe that but you know, like, nobody pulls out their credit card and interested in an accident. And if people are requesting refunds for whatever it is, you’re selling them, then you have to think about what situation did I put this person in that they felt like they couldn’t say no, but I find that most women err on the opposite side of that? 

Courtney Hopper: Absolutely. 

Ryann Dowdy: It they don’t ask enough. They don’t ask enough questions. Not on the side of manipulation. But from a consumer perspective. I don’t like to think of it as manipulation. So yeah, you’re being sold all the time. And you have a choice whether or not you want to participate in that conversation period.

Dana Kadwell: Absolutely. Yeah. I’d love to go back. Like because I love this talk. But I’d love to go back to where in 2017, you just had a baby and you’re doing what you at one point dreamed about? Like, this was my dream job. I’ve made it right. And you’re sitting in this, this isn’t awesome. So take us back there. Take us back to not awesome.

Ryann Dowdy: Not awesome, you know what it was? So the feeling I remember the feeling overwhelmingly was this feeling of rush right. Like, I rushed out the door every morning. I rushed home at night. You know, I had like 60 minutes with my kid before he went to bed at night and then after he went to bed I rushed around to like you know, do the dishes put the house back together fall into bed every Saturday morning you know we woke up and it was like having a house payment grocery shopping gonna do all our things and heaven forbid we tried to like our social life or any of those other things. I just remember feeling this immense feeling of rush and at first I thought that it was normal. Like I didn’t fit right like this is normal. But then it was like, but why? Why is it normal? That we just bust our butts all day long. You know to spend an hour with our kids like this. This is not life Right? Like this is not what God put me on this planet for is to rush through everything and I wish I could say that like, oh, I had this lightbulb moment and all of a sudden it was magical but like know that I went through this horrible like shame cycle of being feeling guilty because on paper, I had a, you know, I did everything I was supposed to do in life, I went to college, I got a degree, I climbed a ladder, I got a master’s degree, I got married, I got a house, I have baby, like, I mean, I checked every single box. And here I am, 34 years old being like, now like, what am I supposed to do with this? And like I said, I realized the feeling in 2017 that, I didn’t want to leaving my full time job till 2019. 

So it took like, two full years. I mean, I worked my businesses side hustle for a long time as well. But there was this giant, like guilt and shame cycle of like, why can’t you just be grateful for what you have, like, you have a really good life, like, you know, you’re well paid, you’re not, you know, you’re well taken care of in your job, you’re appreciated. You know, you’re like your co-workers, you know, you’re my husband’s a great guy, my kids cute, like, we’ve just built a new house, you know, and like, all of these things, adding up on paper, I should be on top of the world and not.

Dana Kadwell: So you rejected that. So like, take us back there. So you know, obviously, going to get into the end of guilt and shame. And like, no, actually, this is what I need, like, now, how was that conversation with your husband? How was that conversation with your employer? How brave with it to go move out on your own, right?

Courtney Hopper: What was the change too?

Ryann Dowdy: Yeah, yeah, those are all really good. My husband, God bless him. It’s just like, COVID, whatever, that was the easiest of all of the Convert. 

Dana Kadwell: Okay. 

Ryann Dowdy: You know, I had always, like, I worked in the startup space. So while I wasn’t an entrepreneur, I worked for entrepreneurial companies. And so every flow and change and grow was kind of my jam. So that part of me being like, I think there’s something else going on here. He was like, cool, you know, because that was pretty normal for my career. I’d like a solid two and a half year like tenure in startups, I’d be like, okay, cool. Your sales system works. I’m out, right, like I would move on. So I don’t think that part was the alarming part for him at all. And even like my employer, he was not shocked when I was like, Hey, I’m out. I did it after maternity leave. So he definitely wasn’t with my second kiddo. So he definitely wasn’t surprised. You know, it was a lot of self-work. It was really getting into the mindset work, the beliefs, understanding all of that, like really diving in, you know, in the beginning of 2019. So this is 2017 that this realization happens 2018 I like put it out into the world. But I’m starting a business, I make no money at all in 2018. And in 2019, well, the end of 2018, I find out that I’m pregnant. 

So the beginning of 2019, I’m like, okay, like I literally have like a time, I had a clock attached to my body. And I’m not coming back to work after this get is one God bless that sweet girl. She’s like two and a half now. And she I can’t wait to see her all these stories when she’s older. Because like she was away, I was like, we’re not coming back. And so 2018 I invested in a business coach, I invested in a mindset coach, and I was like, I gotta figure this out. And so I had to do the tough work, where were the beliefs, what was going on there? It was not easy. And it was super scary but it worked out. And I think a lot of it was just, you know, I grew up an athlete, I grew up, you know, very much a student of like, just work hard mentality, which I’m trying to unlearn right now. But so that’s what I did. I put my head down, I worked hard. I worked. I got up before my, you know, my family, Dan, and I worked, I got my kid out of bed, took him to daycare, went to work, worked on my business over my lunch break, right, finished my day, went home, got my kid, you know, did the things. My husband, you started putting Davis to bed and then I would work at night for two I like and that was just probably my life for like six months. But it worked. And I was able to leave after my maternity leave. I didn’t really even take maternity leave like, well, you know, when they’re tiny that they don’t move very much and then it was like, four or five weeks, I was like, Mom, I’m gonna need you to come over. And so my mom just hang out at home with me and like, you know, I great clients. 

So I would I mean, like, I would feed a baby and like, like George’s guide, she started here that, you know, like, that was a lot of my life. And my clients loved it. And actually, a lot of people found it very inspiring my most successful launch of that coaching program at the time, I was literally wearing Georgia, because she was like six weeks old. But women were like, that’s a mate. Like, you know, for a lot of dad, I didn’t do it to be inspirational. I was doing it for survival, but it would inspire a lot of people, like if this woman can do this, so can I. And so that was the journey. So and you know, we never looked back, things exploded, you know, after I could 100% focus on the business 2020 was, it was actually a really great year in business for us. And we’ve talked yesterday 2020 was not very clear for you all but it was a great year for me, because I’ve worked with women leaving their jobs. And so all these people that thought they had the secure opportunities and the secure jobs realize that they were not actually secure, right. And so people were you know, that or they even just had time to work on a side hustle because they were working remotely, so they have more time to invest in their business to 2021, that being a really incredible year for us. That was kind of the breakout year. 

Courtney Hopper: Awesome. 

Dana Kadwell: I love that. I like how you’re talking about your most successful launch was when you’re wearing your child, and you didn’t do it to be inspirational, but yet people are like, wow, like she can do this with that and maybe I can too and I’ve noticed that too, like early on in my in our business. We’ve talked about this before I was concerned. To show clients that I was anything but whatever it is they were hiring me for, like, my sole focus is your wedding, I’m going to be your wedding planner, like there’s nothing else that’s as important to me. And now we’ve kind of had to step back into the sales role for our event management because we were actually hired on to like full time employees, which obviously is a commitment. March 1, so we’re like, we’re gonna fill their schedule before they get here, me almost completely have, I take these calls at night, sometimes, like they’re at 7:00 or 7:30. They’re at eight and like, hi, hi, hi, whatever. And I love now I’m like, hey, just like full disclosure, like, it’s 7:30. I’m home, I have three kids, I have a four month old puppy, like we may be interrupted. But I will look at that and get right back on to it. And every single one of those people have booked, right, like every single one, because I think that they welcome the one transparency and authenticity, but also they’re like, Wow, this is like a real person. 

You know, like, this is a real person in a real company that has like real life things. And I think that people respect that so much more. And I think also, it just gives credibility, like, you’re obviously not an 18 year old trying to sell me on the phone here. You’re right, having children puppy responsibilities, and they can relate to that.

Ryann Dowdy: Totally. I think that there’s we’re in that seat like that that was a thing for a while, right, like perfect polish, whatever. And I think that’s one of the, if you want to look at what were the pros of, you know, 2020 is that everybody had to drop the perfect facade, because they couldn’t, because they were trapped at home with their kids with their family, puppies with all the stuff and there were no options, right. So like, you can be able to go into an office and like, hide all the crazy at home. And there was you just you couldn’t do that in 2020. And so I think that and then people started to appreciate that. And then now on social media, they just totally overstep the boundaries, and they think they’re entitled to all of your stuff. 

But, you know, generally speaking, I think that that’s really important to people is realness and authenticity, and they want to work with somebody who, you know, they know is good at what they do, but that they can relate to, like, we say that one of our you know, one of our core human needs is to feel like seen, heard and understood. And sometimes we feel that way, when we see you know, we see somebody else, either doing the thing that we want to do, or giving us permission to be a little messy. So I think that the whole perfect facade thing is kind of overplayed and today’s consumer wants, they want real, they want honest, they want to open and they want good work done. And it’s like cool if you’re if you’re gonna do good work with your kid on your head game on.

Courtney Hopper: I think it’s like so powerful that you have such a passion to help other women. And I think being that great example is definitely one of the ways but why do you think it’s so difficult for women to really believe in themselves and to take that leap and follow their dreams?

Ryann Dowdy: Because we have been taught to put ourselves last pretty much our entire lives, right. I literally recorded an entire podcast for my show about this the other day, like we have been programmed to put ourselves last in every area, and it starts very young, right. Like we’re supposed to, you know, we’re not to interrupt, and we’re not supposed to say what we mean. And we don’t want to offend that person. And you know, for me, I was always, I talked too much, I was too loud, I was intimidating. I was always taught to like, make myself small. So that person’s not uncomfortable. And again, I’m not mad at anybody, they were just doing the best they can. And my mom and I talk about it often, because I’m like mama, I say a lot of things on the internet. And I know that it’s not your fault, you’re just doing the best that you could with what you had. But that’s you know, but that’s what we were taught to do is fall in line, right. 

You want to be liked, you want to be successful, this is the way to do that. And it was always in a way where everybody else’s needs came before our own. So this whole idea of I can chase my dreams, I can do what I want, I can create whatever I want. It’s terrifying, because we’ve been told our entire lives that you can do that once everybody else’s needs are met. And there’s never a time when everybody else’s needs are met, your kids, your spouse, your puppy, your employees, your whatever, you know, like there’s never a time in life. And I jokingly said this the other day that like they are only people that get this right are the Airlines like they’re the only people that tell you to put your mask on first before you put on somebody else’s. But there’s nobody else giving women that message or if they do, it’s wrapped up in self-care and face masks. And I’m like, wow, that is lovely. 

We love face masks and bubble baths. I’m a big fan of those things. But like true self care is asking yourself, what do I want? What would make me happy? You know, what does success look like to me? And then even if it’s two minutes a day, you know, doing that thing, or spending time alone daydreaming about that thing? You know, like, to me that is true self care, right. It’s not about going through the motions. It’s asking yourself, what do I want? How can I serve myself today? And we’re just not taught to do that. As a society. I feel like we teach. We teach boys to do that. We teach men to do that very well. But with women when we do that, we’re told we’re selfish. So I think that is why so many women have such a hard time chasing their dreams.

Dana Kadwell: I totally agree. 

Courtney Hopper: Yeah, I feel like that’s like and I think that is honestly the biggest hole in most people’s life is that is what are you doing for you and I totally resonate with that. And I think it is really hard. And for me, like the phase of life I’m in now is people like, what do you want? What’s gonna make you feel successful? And I don’t know the answer, like, I don’t know and it’s not that I’m afraid to say it. It’s not that I am afraid of what, what could come. I literally have no idea like we were interviewing somebody, and they’re talking about how they’re a partnership. And one of the things that’s really healthy for their partnerships is they each have kind of like a side hustle that they do. That’s just theirs, and whatnot. 

And Courtney’s like, oh, I would do XYZ and blah, blah, and they’re like, what would you do? Like, I have no idea. Like, I don’t, I can’t even think outside the confines of my life right now that I can’t think of it. And I think it’s where it’s to me the beginning of burnout, depression, where you can’t dream when you stop dreaming about things and you stop thinking about who you want to be. And where you want to go is where you’re like, hey, this is like a red flag like this is, you know, something you need to be addressing in your life. And, you know, and I feel that and I said that to my husband, and I was like, I cannot continue at this pace anymore.

Ryann Dowdy: No, I totally get that. I think a lot of women I feel like I wind up in that space last summer. It’s like July, I tell the story. It took me a while to be able to tell a story but like, I was literally like sitting on the floor crying. My husband’s like, are you okay? And I was like, I don’t think so. What’s wrong? And like, I don’t know.

Dana Kadwell: All indications are pointing to, No, I’m not okay. 

Ryann Dowdy: What’s wrong? I’m like, I have no idea. You know, and it was a journey. I mean, it took a solid six months and investing heavily in coaching and really like digging, digging deep. But I do think I hate that. That’s the red flag. But yeah, when you stop dreaming, when it’s just like, I’m just going to put one foot in front of the other. I definitely think that is a red flag. And as most women, we just ignore those red flags. And we just keep pushing me just keep going. But yeah, I would have never told you like, I was like, I’m not a burnout person. You know, my life is really great, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I was like, No, that’s where’s that burnout, for sure.

Dana Kadwell: I think the gratefulness is the hardest part. Because when I look around, and I look around, I’m like, I am so unbelievably grateful. I’m grateful for everything that I have. But it’s like, you know, he said, it’s often like living in the tension of the and not the or, like, I am grateful, and I am having a hard time or I’m happy and I’m sad. And as much as I can say it. And I’m like living the tension, it’s fine. It’s so hard to do, because it’s so hard to rationalize it. And I don’t know if again, it goes back to like, you know, being younger being told, like you can only have one of those emotions, like, you know, if you’re ungrateful if you’re so if you’re like upset, that means you’re not grateful. And I’m like, that’s just not how I feel about it.

Ryann Dowdy: I agree wholeheartedly. One of the core values that we talked about a lot is both angles, right? It’s not an either, or both. And we I tried to live by that all the time. And all the decisions that I make, right, like and I do think we’re told that you can have a successful career or be a great mom, right. You can write you can be a good wife, or you can make a lot of money. Like those are the things that were taught from a very young age. I mean, I can say my youngest is two and a half. And what did she say to me the other day, she decided to potty train herself, which is not awesome, but it’s fine. But no, this isn’t a situation, but this is kind of where we project our veterans on it to children. So she you know she potties and she’s all excited and she’s washing her hands because, mommy, is it my Miss Kaylee’s for teaching? Miss Kaylee, I’m gonna make Miss Kaylee so happy. And I was like, nope, nope, not your job to miss to make Miss Kaylee happy? Like, you know, like, it’s Miss Kaylee’s job to be happy. You can be proud of yourself. You can be happy, like you can all of those things but it’s not your job to make this Kaylee happy and I love my children’s teachers. 

But they are I think taught that, like, Oh, this is gonna make me and I’m like, it’s not your job to make me happy. It’s not my job, like, and my son is almost well, he just turned five, actually. And they’ll tell me, you made me mad Mommy, I’m like, Well, you don’t like my actions, but you’re responsible for your emotions. And he just kind of looks at me like a little crazy. But I’m like, if I can, if I can teach them this at five and two, or get them to think critically, that maybe they won’t be you know, in their mid-30s trying to figure out what the hell to do with them, their lives, because they haven’t been told, you know, indoctrinated in that emotion. I gotta make other people happy. I put other people first, you know, I just got to do the things. Because I mean, it happens at such a young age.

Courtney Hopper: It’s so true and worse, or even in like, young adulthood, right. Like, I remember going through psychology classes and like, Oh, you want to talk to somebody you need to own you say like, I feel that this way basically implying that you are making me feel this, right like that. Like, I feel like you are blah, blah, blah, or I feel sad because of XYZ or whatever and like, well, they can’t and the whole reasoning was just because they can’t tell you how you feel. And I get that but at the same time, you’re also blaming them for that emotion. And my husband says all the time, he’s like, I can’t control your emotions. Like I’m sorry, are you feel that way? Like, I can’t control that. And I’m like, that’s not that’s all I’m trying to say, you know, but it’s so true. I mean, it’s definitely and I love that I love that you’re saying to your kids, I’m totally going to steal by the way. That’s great.

Ryann Dowdy: You can be I mean, George will say, that makes me sad, Mommy. And I’m like, I’m sorry that you’re feeling sad. What makes you sad? You know, and then we’ll talk through it and it’ll calm her down. But yeah, like, tell me your staff that’s cool. Like, I don’t I try really hard. It’s hard. You know? I mean, you guys know you have, it’s hard to next big I just need you to stop crying and get a car. You know? It’s like, okay, well tell me about your feelings. I try really hard to not shove away their feelings or dismiss their feelings or tell them how they can feel. Because I do think that’s a large part of why we are where we are society right now.

Courtney Hopper: I totally agree with that.

Dana Kadwell: We’d love to ask this question, for businesses in general. Have you ever had an oh shit moment in your business, like in the entrepreneurship journey, where you’re like, oh shit, I’m in over my head, like, what have I done? I’ve upended all of this, and this may or may not work out.

Ryann Dowdy: Yeah, every day is that a thing.

Dana Kadwell: Every day, okay. 

Ryann Dowdy: No, plenty of oh shit moments. Most of them around like staff and growth. Like that has always been the scariest part for me. Again, I think it’s the athlete and me like, I’m totally prepared to bet on myself. But it was like the responsibility like when the team started to grow and hiring people, and then having to fire people like those were always my, oh shit moments. Were always around team and being a leader, and all the other things. 

So I mean, I think and even, you know, taking on starting a second business with the first business and the first business second business started to blow up. And then I was like, oh shit, what do we do with this? Like, there’s been a lot of those moments. But for me, I would say the most profound ones were always around like team and realizing, like, oh shit, now I’m responsible for other humans, and you had to do a lot of work on like, again, not my responsibility, you know, like, I have a job, they work here, they were looking for a job. And they thought I had to do a lot of work, I’m like, it’s not my job to make sure that this is dismissed, it’s my job to lead the company, it’s my job to put out good stuff. But at the end of the day, you know, I can only control what I can control. So those are most of my oh sit moments around the team. 

Courtney Hopper: I will agree with that. 

Dana Kadwell: It’s even the same way. But we’ve hired lots of people. Yeah, we’ve been through. I mean, lots of great people, people that I’ve moved on, because I moved away or whatever, and had to hire more people. And it became less and less scary. But even with these hires, with C and D, there is still like, a lot of thought intention to work through, like is this do I want one person? Even with great practice that hesitancy and bringing someone in new, like, what’s this gonna do to our office environment? Like, how are they gonna respond to XYZ, like, these people know, are crazy this person doesn’t, you know, like, all those things.

Courtney Hopper: And I also think that when you’re hiring for like, a new job description, like maybe you’re not replacing somebody, but you’re like, hey, this is a hole in my company. It makes you peel back the layers of that part. And sometimes it’s really ugly. And I think that’s where we are to right now. It’s like, okay, like, I’m starting to really dive deep into how this process works. And I mean, I think on a daily basis, I’m like, this is stupid. Like, why have we been doing it this way? Like, why is this how this works? Like, this makes no sense. And so then, and so now you’re like, Okay, well, I don’t want to train them in the way that we’ve been doing it because I don’t like it. And so let’s go back to it. So there’s, there’s that part two, which I think and I think there’s always those moments where you’re like, oh shit, like, what have we been putting out there? Like, you just realize like, Okay, this is not great. And at the same time, like, I’m grateful for that, because obviously, I don’t want it to be dysfunctional for five years. I’m like, Okay, well, it’s a good thing. We’re doing this, but it’s always painful. 

Dana Kadwell: Yeah, middle of it, so painful. 

Courtney Hopper: Well, I think we’ll end on a positive note here. So what’s one thing that you have learned about yourself since you’ve started your business?

Ryann Dowdy: There have been a lot of things but the one that I would say that I hold on to most is that I am extremely resilient and there is nothing that I cannot figure out or will not figure out. I think I’ve always known that but I’ve always had it, I hate to call it training wheels, whatever the training wheels, right. It was somebody else’s business and as long as okay, you know, where I can leave and go find another job. So like, but just like that resilience of  I will always find a solution, like there is no news you can give me or thing you can tell me or rub that you can rip out from under me at this point that I don’t believe I can figure out a way to work through.

Courtney Hopper: I think resiliency and tenacity are like the top two attributes for entrepreneurs. You have to be able to like bend and flex and you have to be able to bounce back.

Dana Kadwell: Well tell us how our listeners can find you and where they can reach out if they too are trying to take back their time. 

Courtney Hopper: Like, where can Dana call you?

Ryann Dowdy: Oh yeah. So the best place to connect on social media we’re at Ryann Dowdy official. It’s Ryann with two “N’s”. You can connect with me on LinkedIn and it’s Ryann Dowdy with two “N’s” are the great social media is a great place for us to connect. Currently we are fixing some behind the scenes things on the website. It says I’m not sending you to the website directly because we’re making some changes back into there. Yeah, feel free to reach out. I’m an open networker. I like to talk to people, you can pop into my DMs. Don’t try to pitch me but if you try to start a conversation, always be very tough. 

Courtney Hopper: Awesome. 

Dana Kadwell: All right. Well, it’s been great today. 

Courtney Hopper: I love this conversation.

Dana Kadwell: Yeah.

Ryann Dowdy: Awesome. 

Courtney Hopper: It’s wonderful. 

Ryann Dowdy: Well, thank you both for the opportunity and a great candidate at candid conversation that I think that we need more of.