Kelly: I think one of the lessons that I learned is how important it’s to get the right people on the bus with you. It’s a very dynamic environment, priorities change all the time constraints come in, kind of like present themselves all the time and you have to be able to be very flexible, very agile, cause everything is super important and super critical.

And you’ve got the right team with you. You can navigate that so much more easily, and get to where you have to get to at the end of the day. So just kind of keeping in mind what the end goal is, what the end game is, and just understanding. You have to be flexible on that journey. 

So that’s definitely something I took with me into the entrepreneurial world. I think also the fact that you are using the people’s resources makes you very like aware of being, I don’t know if the word is frugal, but just being really aware of how you’re spending your money. And we were bootstrapping for more than a year and we were really forced to be very, very, very careful the way we were using our money, because it was literally our own and it was, you know, running out. And I think that that’s a really good kind of habit to take with you throughout your entrepreneur journey.

So once you’re after your bootstrapping, then it’s investors’ money and then it becomes even, you know, more, you feel even worse about spending money without there being a very good reason for that. So just having, it just being careful and mindful and it kind of also forces you, I think, to be really creative in the way you’re using your resources.

Dana: Yeah, certainly So I want to back up just a bit and hear a little bit about, like, tell us a bit about what Nopo is and where

Kelly: So during my time in government, then I was traveling quite a lot. also in my personal life, it’s one of the things that I, I really enjoy. When I had some time to myself, which wasn’t a lot, then the thing that I enjoyed more than anything else is kind of getting lost in the streets and finding these little artisan studios and galleries and speaking with the artisans and bringing home some of these really unique products that somehow you only find when you get lost. And when I got home, I always got so much, so many compliments, like people, you know, where did you get this? And what’s the story behind it. And it just, it was so exciting to bring these little pieces, with me back home. And I had tried to access some of these artisans, because a friend of mine who really liked it, I wanted to buy the same thing for her.

I was decorating my office and I wanted something that I saw on one of these trips. And it was always so difficult, there were so many constraints from communication to payment processing, to just understanding and knowing that the product, is going to arrive in one piece. And so usually I just ended up you know, just managing with less satisfactory alternatives.

And it was something that was kind of like in the back of my mind, just like, how annoying is this? Like, why can’t we access these incredible artisans, it’s just not and then one day I was hanging out with Shanny. So we had met at the, at the executive MBA program. We were both the aspiring entrepreneurs in the room became really good friends and just hanging out more and more with each other kind of thinking, hoping that this idea would come and would really you know, combine our passions and our skills in a way that we could take the, take this journey together. 

And we were at her house and I saw this incredible wall hanging that she and her husband had brought back from their honeymoon in Mexico. And that triggered this conversation where we started talking about, you know, he had traveled to carried it throughout their trip. They barely let them on the airplane. And we just started talking about, you know, all these beautiful products that we had collected and why is it so difficult to access them? And by the end of that conversation, we realized, you know, this is crazy. This is one of the last domains that is yet to be digitized.

Global crafts people are not online. That’s millions and millions of products that are high quality, super unique, full of cultural significance that we do not have access to, and they don’t have access to, to these customers who are, who are really hungry for these sorts of creations. And so we started diving deeper and deeper into this, and we realized the handcraft market it’s massive and it’s growing, it’s valued over 250 billion today. So just to compare the gaming industry, which is exploding is valued below 200 billion, which kind of like as a human being that kind of gets me pretty, like I’m encouraged by that. Like, people are still spending more money on handcrafted items than they are in gaming.

But we just kind of like figured that this is something that we’re really interested. We’re interested that it’s a really unique opportunity here because as big as this market is, it is feeding mostly from makers in the Western world. And we felt like this is a, we want to, we want to level out the playing field.

We want to make sure that there’s access to these incredible artisans and just learning more and more about that. And that’s basically, so what we’re doing today is we’re connecting creators with audiences around the world., we’re focusing specifically at this stage, in the emerging markets, really removing all the barriers that are preventing them from participating international eCommerce today.

And we’re doing this in a really exciting way. So we’re almost, I would say transporting our customers to these incredible countries. We’re doing this through video content, we’re doing this through live events, we’re doing this through our magazines. So we’re really sharing the stories of the artisans.

And it’s one of the reasons that they’re so compelled to join our platform because not only that they’re hungry for new revenue channels, they’re really hungry for this recognition. They want to be part. And so we’re, we’re, we’re creating that stage for them. 

Courtney: Yeah, it sounds amazing. I, I love how it, like your business started by something that you’re passionate about. Like just kind of, and a problem that you had, right? Like, I love finding these things. How do I get these things home? How do I get my friend something that I purchased in another country? And then out of all of that, you know, grows this business, which I think is great. 

Dana: there’s just something so powerful about it. And, and I think that as an artist, right, people who are pouring a part of them into every single piece that they create learning who they are learning their story, learning their inspiration and learning that you’re basically taking a part of their creativity in a way, right home with you is so much more powerful than these kinds of mass-produced things that you see like at Etsy or whatever, not knocking Etsy but a completely different thing. But I, I really love that connection you’re making.

Kelly: Yeah, for sure. And I think, you know, in terms like travel definitely was like an inspiration for us, but I think, what COVID has taught us is we’re all part of this global community, right?  and there’s this desire, I think, to connect to different cultures and different people and the artisans on our platform, they’re all what we call like the new generation of artisans so they’re working very tightly with the communities and the more rural areas, but they’re very much the people that you kind of meet, you want to meet over a beer, over a cup of coffee, just to hear their life story and just get inspired by that and understand on the one hand there’s things that are different and we can learn, about them the same time, there’s so much commonality between us. And I think that’s, it’s that interaction, which is super exciting 

And what you mentioned about Etsy. So yeah, I mean, we were both big customers of Etsy for a while., the thing that kind of made us look for other solutions was that really our need for more curated experience. And I’m when I talk about curation, I’m not necessarily talking about style or aesthetics. I’m really talking about first of all, quality. So I want to know that the materials that are being used are quality materials and that the production process is of quality, and I also want to know that the artisans that I’m buying from are aligned with my, with my values. So if they’re hiring local artists that they’re paying them fair trade as well.

So our curations a platform is focused primarily on values, such as fair trades and sustainability, and then quality as well. Because I think there’s room for a lot of different styles and, and types of aesthetics. And so it’s, first of all, I would say that more curated, more managed, more responsible experience.

And then also what you said, I think, you know, today we have so many options and people are looking to be inspired and get excited in a different way, and Etsy is a company that was established in 2005. It’s a great company, a great, created a lot of opportunity for a lot of people but people are looking for something a little bit more exciting, a little bit new today, and that’s what we’re doing.

A lot of live content, a lot of more like social interactive content, on the platform, which I think just enhances the whole purchasing experience significantly.

Dana: Yeah. I feel like too. And I think this, and I, I feel like have to thank our, this upcoming generation for this too, is, is really that authenticity piece. Right? Like, and you know, when you scroll social media and you see this and they’re like, okay, I’m going to show you this dupe, like, I’m going to show you how to get this for cheaper or whatever.

And, and there’s something I’ve realized that’s so off putting about that because I don’t want the cookie cutter thing. Like, I don’t want someone to walk into my house. It’s like that Friends episode with like, when Rachel and Ross bought the exact same coffee table. Right? I don’t want that to be it be like, oh my God, I had that same couch in yellow.

Like, no, I, I thought about this, like I’m attached to the way my living room looks. I don’t want it to be out of a catalog because I want it to be so uniquely who I am and what I love. And I feel like there’s some, there’s a, there is a push towards that and there’s a craving for that where like what you have, what you spend your money on, it’s authentically you. And so for me, it’s like, okay, I’m willing to spend more money on something that it it’s a, one of a kind, or, you know, maybe one in a couple hundred or something, you know, and even it’s not like this mass-produced item. 

Courtney: Well, I think too that if like 2020, and COVID, it’s taught us anything, that there is like a lot of like safety and security and more value in home, then there used to be. Right. And so I think, and also. The outside world wasn’t as accessible during that time.   so I think you’re like right on the target for a timing with it all. Cause I think people are investing more in their surroundings and in their houses and things have to mean something I think, I think gone are the days of just, you know, obviously like Kirkland’s or whatever has its spot, but that’s, that’s not what’s happening anymore. Right. You know, like again, like Dana said, people don’t want those C cookie cutter things like. Have to have meaning to be able to take up space in our houses that we’re spending more time in now but we’re investing more money in now. 

Dana: Right. But I also think that there is something about, and I don’t think everybody feels this way because I don’t, I don’t want to generalize this, but there I could speak only for my own personal experience that there is something that happened probably four or three, four years ago that like I started paying attention to where my money went and, and I think that it, you can plead ignorance all day long. You say, I didn’t know that company did this. I didn’t know that company believes this, but I, but I love their sandwiches. I have to get it anyways. Like, or it’s the only thing my kid will eat. And, but you’re still throwing money at this company that just so misaligns with what you believe in and all of a sudden that sandwich isn’t taste any good anymore.

Or like that thing you bought is just so ugly. You can’t even look at it. and I think for me, that’s what happened is I started looking at it and saying, okay, who am I paying to do this? You know? And I, and I love a good deal. I hate spending a ton of money on something, but I want to feel good about what I’m buying and know, like I bought this, this is someone who’s getting paid well, who, you know, was resourced, wasn’t like illegally minding this jewel or whatever the case may be like, it’s all sustainable, fair trade, all that. And there’s something very powerful about having a piece of art and knowing that you helped contribute in that way and didn’t start harming. 

Kelly:, It’s a new era of conscious consumerism, right? Like we’re not encouraging people to consume. We’re make, we’re encouraging people to make better choices when they decide to buy something, whether it’s for their home or a gift for someone that they love and just knowing the story behind the product is so powerful.

I mean, I know that I get so much joy holding this mug from one of the artisans in Mexico. And like, I can see her smile and I know what the effort that was put into it. And it really just, it really gives me that pleasure. And I think consumers want to have that ability today to combine, right. If I just need something very, very quick and get, you know, my commodities, I can do that.

But when I want to buy something that it’s going to change the way I, I look or feel or behave. Then those are the products that you want to make sure that, there’s full transparency into them. The values that are behind them, who are the people that are creating them, so just being more conscious, more aware of what you’re, you’re buying and making sure that it really is aligned with who you are as an individual and your world views 

Dana: You have this quote on your website, and it says you set out to create an exceptional discovery platform that would inspire people to explore beyond their familiar geographical and cultural boundaries. Often it is the unfamiliar, which touches our souls in the most powerful ways, discovering little reflections of ourselves and the unknown. Which I like love that by the way.

But really, what you’re doing is you’re removing barriers. So talk us through, like, bridging that, like trying to bridge the geographical distances, the language barriers, like you talked about before, about even how the different way people pay and whatnot, like, what were some of those struggles that you found to kind of bring this collective essentially together?

Kelly: So I’m going to put visibility aside cause that’s a huge problem. I think that’s, I mean, that’s true for any, you know, business in, in the United States as well, but obviously when you’re across borders, it becomes even more difficult. But just having this platform that aggregates and creates this communal network effect obviously is very important for the visibility.

Putting that aside, their main challenges are, first of all, in being able to communicate the unique value of what they’re creating in a way that’s compelling to the American audience. So there’s cultural nuances or social nuances. Its just people aren’t aware of and don’t understand. Many of our artisans speak very broken English.

Some don’t speak English at all. So we take all the information, whether it’s the product descriptions, their bio their own stories. We translate that and we elevate it. So that, again, it just, it’s, it’s in a language where we can, that really does communicate the unique value of who they are as creators and the unique value of the products that they’re creating.

Of course, we’re also integrating. Practices of SEO, which they don’t really have the capacity or know how to do. We connect it to the commercial holidays So, you know, they wouldn’t necessarily know that Mother’s Day is the second largest commercial event in the year after Christmas.

so those are kind of things that we kind of. We create a, a calendar for them and, you know, kind of teach them and guide them as to when, they should be introducing new products and what sort of products and teaching them about trends and so forth. It’s just that translation of, of language and culture at the same time.

And then the other second thing is logistics. So most of the artisans on the platform are one, I should say one woman show, maybe hiring a few local artisans. They don’t have the know how or the capacity to really manage international shipping. And of course, if that doesn’t end the day that you give the package to the international carrier, there’s customer support, there’s refunds, there’s returns it just way and above their, their capacity because they’re focused on the creative process.

they really don’t have the ability to start putting resources on that. So we manage that end to end. And in fact, once the product arrives in our logistics center in each of the countries that we operate and it has gone through our quality assurance, the artisan is going to get paid. So even if the customer at the end is unhappy with the product, for any reason, it doesn’t seem to fit in their living room or it’s different than what they expected. Then we manage all of that. So the artisan is paid and we bear the cost. We bear the risks of that as well., and that’s one of the reasons that artisans will find it so difficult. So American customers really like to know that they can return an item if they don’t like it.

international shipping is incredibly expensive, so they just, they couldn’t afford that. They can’t offer that option, and if you’re going to buy a, a more expensive piece, because it’s handmade because it’s fragile because it’s delicate, they wouldn’t be able to provide that support. And so again, we offer free shipping returns over a hundred dollars 

and I think just at the end of the day, like probably one of, it sounds maybe a little bit more romantic, but it’s probably one of the, the biggest barriers to conversion and that’s just facilitating trust. I would say there’s inherent flaw to every human being, and it doesn’t matter if it’s happening online or offline, you’re transacting with someone from a different culture, a different language, someone, or even a new brand that you’ve never heard of before.

You’ve got all these question marks. Like, can I trust them? Will they understand me? And just having this platform that says, you know, we are taking full responsibility. We are a hundred percent accountable. We’re going to worry for you is something that is really going to help conversion and same thing for the artisans.

If someone from overseas now reaches out to them through their Instagram account and says, hey, I want to buy something. Even if they have a PayPal account, which often is not the case. There’s just, there’s you know, is it fraud? Are they really going to pay me? Is it, you know, there are a lot of concerns., and so we’re just facilitating trust and we’re saying, you know, for both sides, it’s okay?

You can, you can, you can trust us. If anything goes wrong, we’re here to solve it. And, and just give you the customer support that you expect to get.

Dana: Wow. That’s a lot. That is a lot that seems like it would’ve been a lot to like wrap your mind around and I’m sure in the middle of all of it, you’re like, oh my God, what do we get ourselves into? So is there ever, we like to ask this question, was there ever what we call like an oh shit moment.

Like a struggle that maybe, maybe having to be in business with your best friend or just something you guys just didn’t experience. And you’re thinking like I am in over my head here. I’m out of my element. I don’t know what I’m doing?

Kelly: I have an oh shit moment every day. 

Courtney: Yeah. 

Kelly: It’s overwhelming. It’s exhausting. As I said, with logistics, it was something that, you know, I think generally like bootstrapping, like nothing happens all of a sudden you’re growing gradually into what you want to become. And so you’re learning constantly and you can improve. Specifically the logistics I’m very fortunate that my co-founder Shanny took that and really, I mean, she’s like a master of logistics today and it, and it’s, it’s really complex. And we did this in a time where world supply chains went crazy, like went completely insane. You know, adding onto that, all the complexities of, you know, just working in emerging markets and, and.

There were all sorts of different problems. And we broke a lot of plates on the way, in our very early days and have really mastered how, you know, the packaging process has to go, who are the kind of partners that we want to work with at every location. And so really learning the hard way, just by doing and today we’re at a place thankfully that our perfect package rate is, is incredible.

Our client satisfactory rate is really, really high. And so it, again, it took us time to, to do that., but we really, we understood that if we don’t take that on, then we’re not going to be able to create value. And I don’t think that a company is not creating value on a daily basis, has any, there, there’s no reason for its existence. And so that was kind of like our, our mantra from day one, create value, create value, everything else will kind of work out, as we grow and it has thankfully. 

Courtney: Did you ever second guess that in the middle of it, like if, you know, I know for us, like we definitely have, like, these are our values and there’s times when I feel like we’re not hitting that value well, for whatever reason, whether it’s overwhelm or stress or we have a bad hire or whatnot.

And we’re like, I’m like sometimes I second guess like, can I do this? Is this, you know, you have to almost give yourself that pep talk. Do you, did you ever feel like that was a moment where you were like, ugh…

Kelly: Yes, I all the time. Let me, I’m going to try to think if there’s like a specific example that I can think of. But while I think of an example, I, I will say, and this is probably one of like my biggest tips for anyone who’s going into their entrepreneurial path. We really were fortunate to bring to us a group of advisors and investors.

Who have been mentors who have been supporters who have been for us there for us at every moment, every time we reach one of those moments, we had the ability to email them or WhatsApp them or call them, get their support, get their advice, get connections, like open up networks? So if we didn’t know how to solve a specific person, a specific problem, they usually knew to connect to someone who would be able to give us that sort of guidance., so that’s really, really incredible., and something that we don’t take for granted, like it, it’s, it’s really important to just surround yourself with people who can, who can give you that sort of support. 

Courtney:  No, I think that’s great advice though. About advisors and investors. I think, when we talk about this with consulting too, is these people have years of experience, years of problem solving and I, and I think that there’s no problem that’s like uniquely yours, that somebody else hasn’t worked through before.

And I think there’s something about like kind of lowering your pride, you know, and asking somebody for help. And it, it moves you along so much faster than if you were just to sit there and spin your wheels and, oh, I’m going to figure it out on me. That I think relying on their years of experience. And they’ve been through that problem before, right?

Yeah. I think is invaluable, especially in like, todays like fast pace, because even from when we started business, I feel like the pace is so much faster now Because there information’s so much more readily available. There’s like everything’s at everyone’s fingertips. and it just wasn’t that way, like 17 years ago.

Dana: But I think there’s like a for, for me, I always struggle with the confidence of it, you know? And, and I like, sometimes I just need someone you need that reassurance that you’re on the right path Because sometimes that path gets really cloudy and you can’t see the next step in front of you or you’re Thinking am I, am I making the wrong move? Am I investing in this wrong place, time, money, all of it and sometimes you just need someone to like pump you up and say like, and, and to be honest with you, obviously not just a blow, smoke up your ass or anything like that, but to say like, hey, like, but sometimes, sometimes you need someone to give you that, like, I don’t know, just that encouragement that you’re doing the right thing?

Because I think that you get stuck in your head and especially when you care about something so greatly, I think that’s with entrepreneurship is it’s so emotionally, and so personally yours that you can’t get out of your head, you just can’t like you can’t see the forest through the trees So having those advisors I think are, is 

Kelly: And I mean, just being passionate, like truly passionate about what you’re doing is obviously something that like, you wake up every morning saying, hey, I, this is really the thing I want to do more than anything else right now. And that that’s really helpful for just keep on going and persevering. I just like remembered that like, 

When we were fundraising our, our preceded round, then I had this call with an investor that I really, really wanted to come on board because I, I loved them. And I thought that they had so much to value add., and basically they said we too early for them and it, it wasn’t going to happen. And I was just feeling so down. And I had another call with an artisan, like right after that. And I’m like, I don’t, I just, I don’t have the energy to get on this call, but I had to, because it was, you know, I had to, to get on that call and I spoke with this artisan and she shared. What this platform means to her and how excited she is about it. And all of a sudden, that’s it. Like I had all the energy I needed because it, it was, it was, it was that, you know, it was validation that we are creating value. So while that investor decided not to invest at that point, I got that validation from the artisans themselves.

And I think what we really hold onto on a daily basis is when we get, you know, these great reviews from customers or these like emotional emails from customers or from artisans, then it’s just, that’s what really gets us going and really excited about what we’re doing. And, you know, I don’t think all startups have that, that privilege, right.

They don’t necessarily have that immediate or direct connection with the people that they’re catering to. It just, it it’s, it’s amazing. I mean, it’s just. A lot of good energy, all around. So when you hit those, those hard moments, it really lifts you up. 

Courtney:  Yeah. So besides your like, lack of sleep, how has your life changed since starting 

Kelly: so first of all, I relocated to the states with my family, this summer. So that was a major change. I made a lot of sacrifices, so I really like, I don’t do hardly anything else besides work and then being there with my daughters. But also with them, I had to sacrifice a lot. I mean, they’re definitely school events that I won’t go, my husband will go.

So those are things that changed and are not easy. My social life has like really, reduced significantly as well. I can’t take time off. Like, even if I do take a few days off, like I can never shut off. Which is something that is also it’s, I mean, it’s not easy at all, but on the other hand, there’s it comes with this great sense of freedom and accomplishment that I don’t think I could have reached in other ways.

Just knowing that everything that you do is because you created it or brought on the people to create it or worked with those people to create it. That’s such an empowering feeling. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s huge. So I really feel very fortunate to have had this, this opportunity., and again, and, and it is an opportunity because, you know, not everybody can do that.

I was in a point in my life where my husband could say, yes, I’m going to be like an equal partner. And I’m more than an equal partner. He calls himself Mrs. Doubtfire these days., But really be there for our daughters in a way that I couldn’t be as much as I wanted to be, in terms of, you know, our economic situation in life, we’re in a place where I could afford not to take a salary for almost two years, not everybody can afford that. So it really is a huge privilege and I feel very, very grateful to have had that opportunity

Dana: I, I am totally right there with you Like I, I think that entrepreneurship, even as the CEO or the owner, it is a whole family affair, because all the whole family has to buy into it, you know? I mean, even the kids, like as much as they notice, maybe notice that you’re not there. They recognize that you’re doing something wonderful and great. And the example that you’re showing your girls is. More than ever showing up for a track meet, 

 there’s yeah. I, I do. I really do. It’s true. I do think it is. And as, and as our kids get older, I’m not, it doesn’t get easier because I feel like when you miss things, you miss bigger things, but they are able to rationalize, you know, what you’re doing and the impact that you have.

You know, like whenever Ada comes to the office and she sees all the, she’s 12, and sees all the employees. She’s like, all these people work for you? I’m like, yeah, they all work for me. You know, like it’s just, it gets her mind going. And now she’s like, well, maybe I could do something like maybe she wants to be an artist, you know?

And I’m like, well, you could do it. Like totally do whatever you want, you know, have passion for it. So 

Kelly: I, I, I do feel that. And, you know, my, my girls, all each find a way of getting involved. Like my, my nine-year-old likes take photos for us and put on our social media., and she like, literally looks at emails and I’m working, telling me how to rephrase the email like, and my, my four-year-old, like walks around and says, this is an Nopo

This is an Nopo, this should go in the Nopo. Like they have like these ideas and thoughts and they’re very much involved. And so it really is a very, it is a family affair. And, and again, I’m lucky because my husband goes around, you know, telling them look what mom has done. Look at her accomplishments. And so they have this feeling that this is something that is great and that, you know, whatever they choose to do, they have the, the power and the ability to create something that didn’t exist before. So I think that’s important

Dana: Thanks everyone for gathering us today to talk about the hustle. For our episode with Kelly, we are drinking a Kiev Mule. We hope we get the chance to make it this week in cheer conscious consumerism. To learn more in connect with Kelly, you can visit her business on Instagram @ the.nopo or visit the website thenopo.com. 

To learn more about our hustles, you can check us out on the gram at canddevents at thebradfordnc and at hustleandgather. If you’re interested in our speaking training or consulting, please look us up at hustleandgather.com.

Courtney: And if you love this show, we would be more than honored if you left us a rating and review, 

Dana: This podcast is a production of Earfluence. I’m Dana 

Courtney: and I’m Courtney, 

Dana: and we’ll talk to you next time on Hustle and Gather.