Dana: But do you think it’s because they’re all young? 

Courtney: I don’t know. There was like someone sleeping with the manager and like, yeah. And like, which I didn’t understand. He was not attractive. And different servers dating different people in the kitchen or dating other servers. And there was always some drama literally. And that’s like my biggest memory from working at Tripp’s. 

Dana: Oh no, I definitely have much more translatable skills. I was a supervisor for Dairy Queen for two years, my senior year of high school, I actually did it. And then my first year of college, and then I ended up quitting my sophomore year, because this just was too much to drive back and forth to that Dairy Queen. And it was, I was hired when they opened, and so it was like a brand-new store and it was owned by a married couple who were very, very great bosses. 

So I think first off what I learned was how approachable they always were and how much they never expected us to do anything that they wouldn’t do themselves. So I felt like they treated us really well. And it definitely made me realize that that’s why I respected them so much is because I wasn’t their minion. Like they just saw me as, I wouldn’t even say an equal, but just someone that they cared for. And I mean, I was 16 at the time and these people probably my age, now. 

Courtney: They seemed old at the time?

Dana: No, they didn’t seemed old. They just seemed very like established. So definitely taught me that. And then just people were crazy. They asked for weird things and it did, it didn’t matter how much you were trying to help them. Like, I distinctly remember this client they wanted, or a customer. She say, please, we were a Brasier.

So we only had hot dogs, barbecue and grilled chicken and the grilled chicken wasn’t grilled, we just microwaved it. It came already made or whatever. So there was like an option you could get like a regular hot dog with nothing on it. Or you could get an everything hot dog, because like the cheese was extra and the chili was extra or whatever.

So this person she really wanted, she ordered a regular hot dog and she ordered everything on it, except for one thing or whatever. And I was, and I was trying to tell her, I was like, hey, why don’t you just order the everything, and I’ll just take this off? It’s like 75 cents cheaper, right. To do this.

So you don’t have all these toppings. As person, like was like, not what I ordered. It’s not what I want. I’m like, I’m trying to, I’m trying to tell you that this is a cheaper way for you to get what you want. It’s saving you 75 cents. Like in my mind, that made sense. And it was a huge to-do and I was like, whatever, I’ll order it, how you want to order it.

I was like, I’m I made me, it just taught me that doesn’t matter like, if you’re trying to help somebody it does not matter if it’s not what they want. 

Courtney: Like they don’t want to be helped. 

Dana: Yeah. You know, I don’t know. I just remember thinking very clearly, like I’m never going to step in and help anybody else again, I’m just going to charge them an extra 75 cents.

So it should have been whatever. But yeah, I think that’s probably one of the biggest things. And so now, like, you know, with our, with our, with our business now, like someone will call and they’ll say they need X, Y, Z. And I will first say, I really feel like this is a better fit for you based on what you, what you, you’re what you’re telling me.

But if they insist I’m not going to fight it, I’m like, okay, sure. Whatever. I will try once and then I will back off because I know I can’t convince them otherwise. 

Courtney: Yeah. Maybe I learned from my experience that I like a low drama workplace. 

Dana: Yeah, that’s fair. We didn’t have any drama. Like we were all pretty much all females. There was like one dude. I worked with my best friend. We had so much fun. There was times when a super slow, especially in the winter and all we made were I made cakes, ice cream cakes and dilly bars and Buster bars, and yeah, it was fun. It was a great job.

Courtney: I think everybody should work at a restaurant or something. I just think it’s like a, really a unique perspective, a unique client facing perspective where really what you want doesn’t matter.

Dana: Yeah. And I think it also, it just, it provides empathy, I think, for understanding like why your servers, you know, not maybe as attentive or like, I also think it helps you be exposed to a ton of different people. I think, and I think I can recognize the assholes much quicker now, because you experienced so many. 

Courtney: Yeah. The many different varieties. 

Dana: Yes. You’re like, oh,

Courtney: Because all assholes eat ice cream. 

Dana: A lot of assholes eat ice cream. That is the truth. 

Courtney: I love that. I love kind of moving on from that I loved how he really kind of built his brand on how he services his clients.

Dana: Yeah. Like his whole concept that you’re, it’s not just like a money transfer it’s an energy transfer between you and the clients. And I love that. Cause I think that’s, I think that’s what people are really craving. Really.

Courtney: Yeah. I mean, they want to know that you are enthusiastic about them and their project.

Dana: Well, yeah, it’s what he said. He said, people want to be entertained. They want quality and they want to be cared for because their money has to mean something intrinsically to them. 

Courtney: Yeah. Like people are emotional spenders. 

Dana: Yeah. But I think I wonder is that my question is, is that, are you an emotional spender when you have a lot of money and we don’t have a lot of money, but you’re not an emotional spinner when you’re like in the middle. Do you know what I mean? 

Courtney: Yeah. Because I know, I think that, like when I, when we talk about our luxury clients, like I am not our clients like, right. And that was one of the things that I learned throughout this business is my preconceived notions or my thoughts or feelings about money and whatnot aren’t everybody’s thoughts and feelings about money.

And when I put my feelings and thoughts about money on somebody else, it’s actually very limiting to my business. Because I am actually not my ideal client. I wouldn’t be marketing to me. So I don’t know. Cause I don’t think I am an overly emotional spender. Like I don’t make overly emotional money decisions.

I think it gets back to kind of like Pavlov’s hierarchy of needs. Like if you have all of your needs met and there’s a little more gray room than I think that people probably do make more emotional spending decisions. But do you think you’re an emotional spender?

Dana: Emotional is not the right word at all for me, I think it’s, I think my money does have to mean something, but I’m not emotional about it, but I feel very strongly about what I like, who I give my money to. You know, like I used to, I bought like something off of that site, Sheehan or whatever, and I bought it and then like a month later it came out that they were just like horrible to their employees and like they’re in some third world country not paying their people on. I just, I can’t ever wear that dress again, like, because I feel like 

Courtney: what dress is it it’s 

Dana: that black dress from Thanksgiving. 

Courtney: Oh, that was cute on you. 

Dana: Yeah. And I just, I feel like I get it, you know, 

Courtney: but there had to be something there. The dress is only like $30. someone was getting the short end of the stick. 

Dana: Well, yeah, but I mean, I didn’t understand. I don’t think I fully understood it and I, and at the time it didn’t matter, because I needed a dress and I didn’t have a ton of money to spend on it. So I was looking for an alternative thing.

And so I think there is that like where it’s now I’m like, okay, like either I’m going to make something I have work or I’m going to, you know, work extra hard to find something that’s more, you know, sustainable in terms of like economic society-wise. But yeah, I mean, I care about what I buy, but there’s some things that I feel really frustrated that I care about what I buy.

Like I bothers me that I care about, that where jewelry comes from. Because I love wearing jewelry, but it’s also expensive when it’s like ethically done. 

Courtney: you hate that you care about that? 

Dana: I guess I hate that. I care about that. I mean, I do care about it, but so I think those, there’s just a couple of those things, but I you’re getting back to what he was saying is that, that energy transfer and I feel, I think that is so true, cause I think people can really. Really resonate are we really turned off by your energy. And what a blessing that is, because if they’re turned off by your energy and they’re not your client. 

Courtney: Which was a hard lesson to learn. I remember sitting that in front of this client and I think it was the people, the client whose father was the engineer for the Bradford. And we’re talking to them. She was going over the details and I was like, all right. Like we got that. Totally not a problem. Like yep. Absolutely understand. She said that basically my assuredness made her more. It made her more nervous. Like the fact that I felt like none of these things were a big deal, made her more nervous. 

Dana: Because it came across as came across as flippant.

Courtney: Right. I mean it wasn’t, it’s not like we weren’t going to make those details happen and we didn’t see them happen every weekend. You know what? Yeah. 

Dana: And I know, I know, but I think that there is there, but I, it was a good lesson. I mean, it definitely changed the way that I talk to people and the way that I there’s, there’s a difference between a confidence and a dismissiveness.

And there’s a very fine line between the two. And I think whether your intention is to be confident, which was your intention sometimes, like in that moment, it came across as dismissive, like, oh, why are you here with that? Yeah. 

Courtney: I definitely think that was like one of those times where like our energies definitely weren’t vibing, like your energy, like you make me think that you’re going to be a very annoying client. 

Dana: I feel that energy connection, I felt it a lot, like when I, like, when we first started and the first like five years of our business, but it didn’t matter. Like I was like, okay, I can change my energy for you because I, we don’t want the gig or the job or whatever, but I definitely feel.

That’s nah, they’re not, they weren’t enjoyable. And they definitely helped pay the bills. And so there’s a part of me that’s like, okay, like we, weren’t at a point where we could be choosy about that. And like, now we’re at a point and, and the truth is, is that now that we have a team, if I don’t match your energy, there’s like nine other people that could match your energy.

Courtney: Right. Which is totally fine. You should not match my energy. 

Dana: Right. But I mean that’s kind of why we try to get to them a little better. I’m like, hey, like you’re totally going to vibe with, you know, Kelsey, like, this is totally a Kelsey client. You know?

Courtney: I love that like that we have that option right now for multiple energies, which made me think about his team. And he said, but he only hires surfers. 

Dana: I know it’s super interesting. 

Courtney: Now because they’re all super mellow. 

Dana: Do feel like there’s some, a certain type of person or a person that is, or does certain thing that we always hire or would always hire?

Courtney: I think the person that I would hire to give myself peace of mind would not be the same person I would hire for client facing if that makes sense. Like office manager wise, like I loved having a, like, stay at home mom that kind of had that ability to like juggle everything that knew, like they can do like 30 things at one time and like circle all the plates and whatnot. Like I thought that was a really great fit. 

Dana: She was great with clients. 

Courtney: She was great with clients, but she wasn’t, but she, she never planned a wedding and she wasn’t like overly like emotional touchy, feely. Like she didn’t give off those emotions, 

Dana: but she was a great venue manager for that very reason, cause she could hold the line.

Courtney: But I never thought about whether, what she was getting done or not getting done because I just felt like so confident in her abilities to juggle a thousand things, cause I’m mom. I know what she does. Do you know what I’m saying? 

Dana: No, I agree. So I think that for C&D I think our, we would always hire a mother over anybody else, no matter what, even as a planner, I think that’s the case because I agree.

I think that they are able to connect with people. Like I think about like some of our best planners and this is not knocking Kelsey cause to Kelsey’s a great planner, but some of the ones I think of who have like who their power and their super power is like making clients feel at ease and what we get like the most like love and feedback for someone like Maggie Beetle.

Right. And I think it’s cause she’s very maternal and she’s very caring and like, she just, you just, when you’re around her, like you would like just want to give her a hug. And she is great at like multitasking and doing all those things. And I thought, Sarah, our old office manager. Like although she never planned for us.

She was she was one of my favorite and best assistants because she could carry on a conversation with anybody in anything she could connect to them. She was very like diligent and she was a great venue manager, and when you look at our Bradford team, now, none of them are mothers. No, none of them are.

And I feel like that’s great because I need someone a hundred percent totally dedicated. And who doesn’t have the pressures of home because it’s, I need them there all the time. So I think that not that I wouldn’t ever hire a mom for the Bradford, and I’m assuming one of those lovely women will become mothers one day.

I think they will. 

but I think it’s, if I was to pick like our unicorn and their ideal client, whatever for the Bradford, I would, I think, I mean, for C&D I think I’m a mom is a great fit for us. 

Courtney: I’ve also often thought that teachers are great fits. 

Dana: Yes, that’s another good one 

Courtney: because I think they have similar skills, but then it made me think when Chris said that he only hires surfers and I think, oh, teachers are great. Is that because I was a teacher?

Dana: Maybe, but I think, think about all, the way you have to adapt every single day as a teacher is how you had to adapt to every single event, and with every single client, like you have to figure out what do they need, how, like what’s the best way to connect with them like you do with your students.

Courtney: I also think it’s a great marketplace for us, so you can poach those people up so inexpensively.

Dana: I know. We shouldn’t do that. They’re already struggling to keep their jobs.

Courtney: Cause it’s very similar, like corralling squirrels and the adaptability and lesson planning and all those things. The organizational part.

Dana: Yeah. I definitely agree. 

Courtney: Maybe you just like, like thinking through it a little bit deeper, maybe you just resonate with people who’ve done things that you’ve done. So you really understand the skills that it takes to do those things, and that’s all, you’re like, oh, that’s a great employee. 

Dana: I really loved when he was talking, we were kind of talking about that imposter syndrome and he was, and he didn’t really say he suffered from that more like perfectionism, that he had that tiny voice in the back of his head or in his mind that was telling him something. But the other guy was louder.

And I really love that because I think that I don’t know everyone has that kind of, you know, pull one way or the other. And I love that he recognized that the other person was louder. And that’s what he was saying about. That was like a really neat picture in my mind. 

Courtney: I know it made me think about people in my head. Alternative Courtney. 

Dana: What is your tiny voice saying? What’s louder? 

Courtney: My tiny voice says, like I could have said this on that podcast, cause that’s such something that I deal with all the time, is there’s never going to be enough. So my tiny voice has always that, and my louder voice is it has to work out.

Yeah. Like it’s true. Like it’s going to work out, you know? Yeah. But it’s like definitely in between those two things, like just don’t forget to be enough. 

Dana: It has to work out. Right. 

Courtney: What’s your tiny voice say? 

Dana: I don’t really know. I feel like it’s not very tiny, I guess is, I don’t know if, when it’s on the other, I think what’s in my head is what I struggle with is that I’m failing and a lot of things in life often, like just a constant, like, you know, failure, failure, feeling of failure, failure, and it trickles into like home and, you know, 

Courtney: Well, I feel that greatly 

Dana: like I just struggle with that. And I think, I guess what is louder is like, I’m doing the best that I can do. but sometimes it’s, I don’t feel that either. I think I’m, I do, not the best that I can do. I’m doing the most that I can do. Which I think is two very different things. 

Courtney: Sure. Like I’m putting out all I can put out right now. 

Dana: Right. But it’s not my best. And if I just took some time to rearrange my life and rearrange how I can do things and it could be the best. I’m not. 

Courtney: Taking the time or in the time where you could rearrange?

Dana: Like just approaching it differently, not being stuck in how things have to be or recognizing that if you had to let something go so that you’re not always failing, you know? So 

Courtney: He talked a little bit about his barometer of stability. Like when he knew that he could quit his Mama’s Fish House job, just to pursue this full time. And I’m thinking I’m kind of glad we didn’t have a barometer of stability because we definitely weren’t stable when we quit jobs. And did this pursuit this whole time? 

Dana: Yeah, no. 

Courtney: So I think more about what’s my barometer of stability today, when do I feel stable today? Looking back, I know I did not have one because we were not stable, 

Dana: Well, what is it? 

Courtney: I don’t know. I guess I’m like super like conservative. Like I’m like one of those I want three to six months of expenses kind of in my bank account. I think maybe it goes back to like security.

Which is, I was talking to Mikael about this the other day, is there not that we ever like, worried about like where’s food coming from growing up, but there wasn’t a whole lot of like financial and even like physical security because our mom was like in and out of hospital and whatnot. And like some of those like trends of insecurity of like seeped into my personality, where I tend to be afraid of being insecure or taking big risks and things.

And I think a lot of people would say, oh, you have taken big risks, risks. And I do think that’s the case, but they don’t really, they’re not really like, we’re pretty safe risk takers, but probably on the risk side, but on the safer side. 

Dana: Oh no, the only time we’ve been risky is after we were successful, we were never risky prior to the success of it. Like there was never a point in that construction of the Bradford, if it all failed that we would have lost everything. There was never, we never, we didn’t put that much on the line. So it really wasn’t risky. 

Courtney: I’m just saying there’s, there’s probably that, that peace of mind that where it’s like, and especially for the business, like I’m always thinking of, and I think about all the things I’m involved in.

Think about the budget and I’m the treasurer for the PTA, like, oh, how’s that looking? I with the NACE, like, are we going to make our goal for this gala? Like we have to make X number of dollars for us not to go on the red. And I think about those things. And I think about the business, like how many months do we have in reserve here?

And especially like, as we add on more teammates, for me, that burden just feels bigger. It doesn’t ever feel lighter because I feel like, okay, well then there’s that next person that’s relying on all of our decisions for their paycheck too. So I don’t know, my barometer is three to six months, hopefully six months, then it’s a year.

Dana: Yeah. I think my barometer for stability is definitely finances. I think it’s also time. Time is a big one. Like, I feel very stable when I have, I had the ability to do things that I want to do and, you know, and have to go on a vacation or, you know, consistently be home, you know, when the kids get home from school and whatnot, but definitely finances.

I think that for so long, we lived in a, we definitely lived in a scarcity mindset like me and Sam did, like we, you know, every dollar was a big deal, you know? you know, when the kids were playing sports, so it was like, hey, let’s go to like, play it Again Sports and try to find like, you know, cleats up in used or whatever.

And now it’s just, I swear, we go to academy at the beginning of every season and we spent a couple hundred dollars and we get them, all the things they need. And it’s not like I’m over there buying like Adidas shin guards, why you need Adidas and shin guards. You can use a $4 shin guards, a Brava.

It’s fine. You know, but there’s certain things like you try to buy the cheap shoes. They didn’t have them in there in her size. So I had to get the more expensive shoes and which is fine, and it was never, it wasn’t a thought. It wasn’t like, okay, we just spent this before. It was okay.

We just spent, you know, $60 here, which means we’re going to have to really cut back next week and blah, blah, whatever. We never went out to eat like ever, ever, ever, we would go out maybe to Chick-fil-A maybe once a month. And that was it because it just, it just was, I can’t even say we couldn’t afford it.

It just didn’t match our financial goals that we have. I feel like now, you know, and not like we’re cavalier, but we’ll go out to eat once a week. And when the kids need something, it’s not a huge deal. It’s not like a big production. You know, I agree. So I think that’s definitely my barometer for stability 

Courtney: I don’t know, but I tend to like cling on more tightly to those things when the world feels unstable. Like, I start getting very, like, controlling about those things when I’m like the whole world feels like it’s going to hell in a hand basket. 

Dana: Yeah. But I feel less. I actually feel less that way. I feel like the whole, world’s going to hell in a hand basket, why do I care about this so much? Like why? Like just let it all go. Like, yeah. Cause it just shows that there is no stability in like, like at all, it doesn’t, it doesn’t matter how much money you owe. I think about that. Like, I’m like well maybe we should go add terrorism to our insurance. So we don’t have on, 

Courtney: I think about that often 

Dana: you know? But like, it, it doesn’t, it wouldn’t matter how much money I had in the bank at all. Like, it wouldn’t matter. It, it just wouldn’t matter. So like at that point, okay. Like we’re alive, we’re healthy. 

Courtney: We should start accumulating cans. 

Dana: No, I just think that, you know, we’re alive. We’re healthy. Like that secure. Right? Like that’s the best you, you can. And sometimes I get these very like, morbid, like moments of when everything’s perfect and happy. And you think of, you can think of anyone in your life that’s had, you know, a tragedy or something happened. You’re like, when was the last time they were normal and happy? Did they know those last time they’d be normal and happy? 

Courtney: Yeah. Probably not, no. 

Dana: Right. But like, it’s true. Like we’re not guaranteed like anything like for the next day. And when you think about it in those terms, like, okay, this stability is just that I’m here. yeah, that’s it. 

Courtney: That’s how I talk myself out of those moments too.

Dana: I’m like, okay. Do I have what I need for today? Yes. Okay. Moving on next day, right? 

Courtney: Well, let’s lighten it up here. What’s your fuck-up of the week. 

Dana: Oh, I think I just haven’t done the things that I need to do to feel successful. And I feel like I just behind on like all the family stuff, like cleaning and laundry and all that stuff. And I feel like I didn’t properly prepare Sam for the week. 

Courtney: I believe you’ve said these exact same words before on the fuck-up of the week. I have not properly prepared Sam for the week. 

Dana: I’ve said it once before the other two times are related to me. But no, I and I think it’s probably going to be the fuck up the fuck up of the week for probably the next six months of my life. It’s just, we have taken off more than we take in more than we should have, and we don’t have enough time in the day to do it all. And there’s no way out of it other than just to get through it.

Yeah. And I recognize that, but it doesn’t make it any easier and doesn’t make it feel any better. Like, oh, it is what it is.

Courtney: My fuck above the week is also related to family. I, on Wednesday, the kids go to a chess club and I was coming in hot yesterday after an appointment.

And I went right to the office of the kids, got off the bus and I didn’t see them get off the bus or anything like that. I was just hanging out with Liam and hanging out with Mason. Nora goes up to her room when she gets home. So it’s not abnormal for me. 

Dana: Like you didn’t realize she wasn’t home. 

Courtney: Yeah. I didn’t even realize she wasn’t the house. Liam’s teacher called and asked, I was like 4:10. And she was like, hey, I was just wondering when you were planning on picking up Nora. And I was like, what? Nora’s not the house? It’s like she a chess club. And I was like, oh, sorry. I’m so sorry. Put that down for my nomination of parent of the year. I was like, I had no idea she wasn’t even here.

Dana: That’s funny, 

Courtney: The boys didn’t say anything to me. No. 

Dana: They just assumed you knew, 

Courtney: I guess they did. I don’t know. Hmm. It’s definitely like, okay, it’s going to win me parent of the year. Well, I don’t know. I’m out of the running honestly, out of the running every year. 

Dana: Yeah.

Courtney: Cheers. The next year or 2023, where we will be parents of the year.

Thanks everyone for gathering us today to talk about the Hustle. For our episode with Chris, we are drinking a Summer Old Fashion. We hope you’ll get a chance to make it this week and cheers to great energy. To learn more and connect with Chris. You can find his beautiful work on Instagram at chrisjevansphoto, and you can learn more about his business by visiting chrisjevans.com 

Dana: To learn more about our hustles, you can check us out on the gram at canddevents at thebradfordnc and at hustleandgather. If you’re interested in our speaking training or consulting, please look us up at hustleandgather.com.

Courtney: And if you love this show, we would be more than honored if you left us a rating and review, 

Dana: This podcast is a production of Earfluence. I’m Dana 

Courtney: and I’m Courtney, 

Dana: and we’ll talk to you next time on Hustle and Gather.