Pam: Welcome to What’s Your Tilt. Before we get started, can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you ended up being in that wonderful position of Chief of People at Red Hat?

DeLisa: Well, it’s a bit of a story, which is fun for me because I love telling stories. And I started as the second lawyer there and I was hired to do the deals. The general counsel did everything else, and I did the deals. And we were growing and there’s lots of great opportunities, I got to go through our accelerated leadership development program.

And over time expanded my responsibilities beyond doing the deals to include supporting the board of directors and really getting involved with our people organization as kind of the token manager who helped to give feedback on organizational development. And I got to meet some folks at NC State who are helping to support us as we were standing up right at university.

So it’s great experience, and then within five years of joining our CEO, Matthew Zoellick, came to me and said, hey, our head of people is retiring, I’d like you to raise your hand and to be considered for this role. And I thought. Wow, of course. I was like, Hmm. So long story short, we both took a big risk and neither of us knew what was in store.

Pam: Yeah. So how did you feel about having a role that was completely different than what you had done before? It had to be intimidating. 

DeLisa: It really was intimidating, and of course, imposter syndrome was definitely rightly felt, right? But I just, I loved Red Hat so much. I felt like the company had invested so much, I learned so much, and he felt like I had learned so much. He knew that over those five years that I learned all these different areas of the law that I never had practiced before. And I had become very much a support for our head of HR, doing executive compensation and equity compensation, and also supporting the board of directors through governance and kind of professionalizing our board when we went from being kind of a kitchen cabinet board to being a professional board.

So he saw those things that I had done and learned, and I did not have that capability when I joined Red Hat. So I think that made him confident that I could learn anything. And what he said was that his biggest concerns were executive and equity comp, but secondly the culture, and he felt that having kind of grown up at Red Hat, gone through our accelerated development program that I had really learned to be effective in the environment and to be a creative to the culture. So I think that’s why it was important to him that I be considered. 

Pam: And as you were saying that I remember the first time I walked in the front reception area at Red Hat and the old location at NC state, it was a Gandhi quote, over the desk. will you share with our listeners what that quote was? And a little bit about that early culture, because I remember it being so very special.

DeLisa: Right, it was definitely, and still is on some of our, off on some of Red Hat’s walls, but it’s first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they disregard you, then you win. Or something along those lines. I don’t think I got it exactly right, but the idea is that you start out as this underdog that no one believes in and no one takes seriously. And then over time, the underdog becomes really a Superman, and that’s what happened with the company. 

Pam: So you have to go through some tough times you know, people get angry at you, they disregard you, they try to put you down when you’re doing something different. And of course, all this comes from open source in general, right? 

DeLisa: You know, at the time, way back 20 years ago, I joined the company. Open source was very much not accepted in the enterprise. It was considered to be a hobbyist, infrastructure software, but the people that were really passionate about being open-source developers and contributing in the open, they brought in that code into enterprises kind of on the down-low. 

And then as the use of the technology increased with them, you know, their systems, they had to really look to Red Hat to support it, because Red Hat had these passionate people that joined because of the, the love of open-source, but they were the best at taking care of that code. 

Pam: Yeah. It’s almost like, it seems like the culture was sort of a counter-culture in a way. It was rebels, you know, like we’re going to make sure that we have competition in the world and, you know, no major players. And here we are, you know, in this current world events, kind of going through the same thing again, in technology. 

DeLisa: it’s true things repeat, don’t they? 

Pam: They do, and then, and then the rebels get bought by the big, you know, companies like it always happens, right? Anyway, really great history, and one of the things that I was thinking too, as you were talking, you went through the accelerated development program. So you were chosen, especially as a high potential probably, right, and I’m wondering did Matthew get to know you then? Did people in the organization get to know you then and that’s how your career got accelerated? 

DeLisa: Definitely. So he was a major sponsor of the program and part of the program was that it was, you know, cross functional group of people put on a team. They didn’t, you know, we didn’t know each other really, but when we’re all from different functions and then we had to come together and pitch to the executive team a project, something that we thought would be helpful for Red Hat.

And so the project that we pitched was based upon the surveys that have been done, that people didn’t feel that Red Hat had a culture of recognition, and it was something that was desired. And so we pitched it and we got approved to move forward with the project. And then we had to keep going back and going back because there’s cost involved and the time Red Hat did not have a lot of money. So we had to really show the value, and it was bootstrapped, completely bootstrapped the programs, but the program that was created, there was two of them. 

One was called the reward zone. Rewards zone is still at Red Hat and it’s a peer-to-peer recognition program, and now it’s gone through like four iterations of the technology that supports it no longer we hand delivering little tchotchkes, which is how we started out. And then the other program was the service award. So the, for longevity. So for 5, 10, 15, 20 years. And I just saw people tweeting their little pucks that show their 15-year award, so people are so proud of getting their puck. 

So this program knew there were great investment. They lived on way beyond brave new world, which is accelerated program that was a part of. 

Pam: That’s what the name of it was, brave new world. Right. It was kind of an adventurous program if I remember right. It’s such a coincidence as I’m hearing you say this too, because when I was in my thirties, I was in a program like that and my project was picked and we did the same thing.

So we were, it was about culture and it was about head, heart, gut and spirit and culture. And there were you know, number of other things too, but our, we were very much about a very similar thing. culture was a big deal. 

DeLisa: It’s great, when a company can invest in developing leaders and then putting them into projects that they wouldn’t do during their day job.

I think that’s why I was so passionate about Red Hat, because I got a chance to step out of my comfort zone and do these projects. And if I hadn’t had that chance when Matthew came to me and said, I want you to, you know, raise your hand and be considered for this. I definitely wouldn’t have done it because I wouldn’t have had that exposure.

But because of the exposure I had in this project cross-functionally and really working with the team in the HR department, it was still daunting, but it felt like Red Hat had done so much for me, that I should give back in that way and take that risk. 

Pam: Sounds like passion to me, and I’m sure that’s probably what he picked up on. And knowing you over the years, that passion for culture was there, always. Well, of course we’re, we’re doing this because we’re you know, at, till we’re interested in exploring some use cases for the Tilt assessments, and I’ll never forget that I got a phone call from Tony O’Driscoll who invited me to have coffee with him at NC State and wanted to know about my Tilt framework and assessment that I was doing in my graduate studies. And I explained it to him on a napkin. I don’t know if you knew that. Anyway, and he then told me about you, but how did you learn about Tilt and what was it that got you interested in the Tilt framework? 

DeLisa: Well, we were working with Tony at, he was at NC state at the time. And then later he moved over to Duke. We did many different projects together, so he got to know us a bit and he was fascinated by the culture and the open-source movement. And he actually worked with us to study open-source community values, and recognizing that there are similarities between the values of the source community and what was valued by the people at Red Hat, because the constant participation in open source.

So when he saw your framework and got to understand what it was all about, and then he thought about us, he had the brilliant idea of bringing us together. He could see there’d be a spark, a lot of similarities in the way that that you were thinking in the way that our organization operated, and he thought, you know, with that, the similarities, it could be mazing mutual support of each other if we worked together and he thought it could be a strong partnership. 

And at the time we were working on developing our leadership competency model, our first full-fledged model that have proficiency levels and things like that versus just like a word, you know? And so we were really digging in trying to get that put together as a support for the leadership behaviors that we needed to see and the capabilities we needed to build and so when he met you and learned about your research, he just thought they would, there was a symbiotic thing there and we should meet. 

So, and I don’t know if you remember, we partnered together on mapping out, the connections between our competency model and Tilt, and the thing that we’ll always remember is that we thought a lot about overuse and underused strengths because we saw that, you know, frequently in the culture, and that’s the model, in the Tilt model as well, and really thinking about people in a strengths-based approach, which is so much more motivating for people.

If you think about your strengths, just being overused or underused versus, you know, totally focusing on gaps. And so that that really resonated with me, and it was really important for us because that was the foundation for how we were going to support the culture. 

Pam: Well, I remember the first time we worked together, it was with an intensive program, I think for a week. I remember you being in the room and watching from the side and I also remember that I went, we went, I think right after Stephen Covey, you know? And so we were like intimidated, cause we were still pretty new and you know, the research was hot off the press. I was still working on my thesis and the research wasn’t complete yet.

So, you know, really appreciated the You know have the courage to go with an unknown and bring us in there. We had a really good time with those leaders. I think there must have been 60 or 80 people in the room. 

DeLisa: Yeah, that was our flagship program, was the manager intensive. And that was a Matthew thing that he had really decided we needed to invest in managers at Red Hat, and so he was kind of the author of that program overall, and then we brought in lots of great content and ideas and concepts. to help our managers begin to develop further.

Pam: I remember being impressed that it was an opt-in program. People volunteered to come and get developed and go through this very intense week of, you know, challenging how they were thinking, and anyway that was really, really neat. Great, great memories.

 I know it was really great. You’ve done many things since then, you know? You and Jan Smith, who was in charge of leadership development and, two of you, and I’m sure many others developed your accelerated leadership development programs over the years.

And they just became fantastic programs, everyone wanted to be in them. And it was pretty much a given that if you went through that program, you were, you know, your career was being looked at, you know, and you were probably going to get promoted right. 

DeLisa: So what happened was brave new world after Matthew retired it was no longer, kind of as supported without his strong presence and so. And also it had kind of run its course in that that program was designed for individual contributors and we really needed to start focusing on our manager capabilities. And so we hired Jan to help us to develop kind of the next phase of what leadership development would look like at Red Hat.

And she had a great background and she’s so passionate about accelerated development. So, we really, you know, professionalized what we were doing by having Jan on our team and helping to guide us on creating a program that she said, well, we’re done with this.

This program is going to create people who are freakishly loyal to Red Hat. And that was her promise and it sure paid off. And yes, people love the program. I attended pretty much every, every single program, some pieces of it and every graduation. And it’s a nine-month program, and every graduation, the people who went to the program stood and shared about their experience.

And it was life-changing, both professionally and personally for every single person. And. So, yeah, that’s something again, where you’re really investing in people to help them with their lives. people really appreciate that. 

Pam: Yes, and I was so happy to have you using the positive influence predictor and so how, how do you, how do you think that a tool supported the use case that you were looking for in there? 

DeLisa: Obviously Tilt is a huge foundation for kind of everything we’re doing leadership development wise, and so particularly in that program where you’re trying to help people to accelerate their development, the 360 instrument, right, help them to get feedback about how they were showing up and where they were showing up strong and as they expected and where they have blind spots and that can help them to decide what they wanted to work on. in terms of their own leadership capabilities and how they’re perceived. So all of that was a huge foundation for all of our leadership development programs, but particularly for that one.

The other program that it was really important for was like our senior leader development program. So that was more of an individualized program, not a cohort-based program for people that were moving from a vice-president level into a senior vice president level, and not only did we use Tilt to help them understand their strengths and gaps and to create development plans. We also used to Tilt you all, to help us find the right coaches for those individuals to help them with their development plan. So the partnership, simply amazing and really impactful to Red Hat.

Pam: Yeah, our coaches have loved working with the executives and leaders and, you know, follow their careers. You know, sometimes now I’ve seen people that we coach 10 years ago, or 15 years ago now circulating again and going through coaching again. And they’re really advancing, you know, to the most senior level. 

DeLisa: It was so important because Red Hat, had and has leaders who are, have these great spikes of brilliance, we call them the spiky leaders. And when you have people that have those spikes of brilliance, you also find that there’s some gaps, right.

And what we wanted to do was help them leverage their spikes of brilliance to the highest degree they could, versus trying to close every gap. But if there’s a gap that was really, really getting in their way to help them focus on that. So it was people will only focus on a couple of things at a time.

Right, so positive strengths-based approach for Tilt was just a really important foundation for us. And it really resonated with our people, and it’s so much more motivating because they could really focus on, well, I’m good at this. Let me even be better at it by kind of being within the guard rails versus kind of overusing and underusing.

Pam: Yes. I always enjoy debriefs of that instrument because it does seem to really open our eyes, all of us, I do it every year myself, to the things that we don’t know that other people are noticing about us. We have these habits that we keep doing and don’t realize it. so it’s kind of a gift to have that information so that you know how to keep tweaking your, how you’re showing up with people.

DeLisa: It’s done in such a positive way too, because strengths-based. I had gone through, I’ve done all these different programs, right? So one point I was kind of the Guinea pig for the program at one of the universities where they were teaching students to be coaches. And this particular approach was to take down verbatim comments from lots of people, and then feedback those comments to you verbatim versus putting it in more into themes or putting it into an instrument.

And I had to say that was not motivating to me. It was quite in my face and it was hard to hear versus, you know, using the Tilt method. Being able to yeah, skip the feedback, but get it in a way that it motivated me versus made me feel like I was a failure. 

Pam: I remember that there were a couple of you that volunteered to go through that program with an academic program.

And yeah, I remember the report you showed it to me. It was. 30 pages of everything that people think about you and when I, when I read it as a coach, I was like, I will never do that to someone 

DeLisa: I’ll never do that either. 

Pam: Well, this is so great. I know I was; I attended your goodbye luncheon and, you know, there were so many tears and so many wonderful comments and so many people who said, you know, you were the heart of the culture for so many years. So I know that that, passion that you’ve had over all those years and your passion for leadership development in general is an important part of your life. 

And so now I kind of want to shift gears and switch over to the personal side. I can’t imagine what it must’ve been like for you to go from such a senior C-level role to all of a sudden, you’re retiring and you’re, you know, have this whole world and your fingertips. How did that feel to you when you, when you did that?

DeLisa: Well, I’ll say, you know, I was ready for a change. I was really ready to move into phase two. So I really welcomed the change, but yes, that retirement celebration where we heard from a number of folks where you, when you hear what others think in a positive way, it’s really, really moving.

And so it took me down memory lane, for sure. And I think about, you know, when, where we started, when we, I joined the company when there was 500 people, and then when I retired, there’s 17,000 people and you reflect on all those years and all the experiences and all the growth, it’s a lot. So, it was really good.

Uh, Jan Smith, again, she was like, we’re going to have a retirement thing. And I’m like, no, no need to do that. She’s like, we all need it. You need it. We need it. And she was so right. So it was a beautiful event, it helped me to, you know, be able to reflect back on all the things and have some closure, which I think, you know, during COVID, retired during COVID, when you can’t even see people, it’s hard to get that closure. So I really appreciated it and it was wonderful. 

Pam: Yeah, there were so many wonderful things that made me feel good about you being able to hear them as well. you know, when you’re at the top, sometimes it’s lonely and people don’t really say all the things that they’re thinking. So and a lot of people who’d left before you and retired before you came to the call too and, brought back lots of wonderful memories. 

Uh, so thank you to Jan for insisting that I know you didn’t want to do it, and I heard that she insisted that you have that. So that’s really great. So for our listeners, I’m dying to hear a little bit, because I know a little bit of the story, but I know your Tilt changed over the years. So tell us a little bit about what is your true Tilt and about, you know, how it’s changed. 

DeLisa: Well right now I’m Tilting as a cross pollinator. So I love to link people and ideas, and it’s so true. I remember when I took it again recently and that’s what the results were, and then I read the feedback. It’s like, yes, this is exactly what I love to do. Inspire people. I love to ideate. I love to get to express empathy for others and all those things, which you think about my role as chief people officer, those seems to make sense that that would be the way I would Tilt. 

But the interesting thing was fascinating is when I first did my true Tilt many, many, many years ago, I was Tilting clarity and that’s, you know, wisdom of humanity. And that of course made total sense, cause I had just moved from the legal team, right. So of course it’s all about wisdom and humanity. If you’re practicing law, when I first moved into the role I leaned in on and use those skills more. But then over time, especially as we were growing and I realized, wow, if I’m going to be the chief people officer for Red Hat, I’m going to have to do more than, than be behind the scenes. You know, supporting in a very wise and, you know, humane way, 

I’m going to have to be out front and learn to inspire people, not just in my own department, but for the whole company and across the globe. And so I really pushed myself to lean in and I developed skills over time. And it was, it took a lot. It took a lot because I didn’t like public speaking at all and I needed to be able to public speak pretty frequently, for example.

So over time I began to shift to Tilt towards impact and I needed to do that for my role. So it’s just fascinating to me how, what you’re doing can really impact your Tilt. 

Pam: Absolutely. You’re kind of proving the idea that I had 30 years ago that we’re not really just a type, you know, that we, we start out with a certain set of preferences for sure.

 But our, you know, we adapt to the role we’re in, we adapt to what our job requires of us. And like in your situation, adapting resilience. I remember you telling me one year you were like, focused a hundred percent on resilience, and how do I increase those character strengths in my leadership? And of course that’s all about visioning and inspiration and being creative. All those things. 

So, no surprise that you, you know, shifted to connection and impact and now back to connection. so anyway, that’s kind of neat. So it’s been fun to watch over the course of those years. you know, kind of, I tell people about that now. Like, you know, I know people that have moved around the model, you know, you haven’t, I don’t know if you’ve been in structure. Maybe you did that before, you know, like when you were in law school, that’s probably where you did that one.

DeLisa: I think I definitely lean towards or Tilted towards structure early days for sure. Definitely. Absolutely. And 

Pam: that’s really, my theory is that advanced thinkers that are choosing an intentional development path have the ability to create a brain that helps them quickly adapt to the situation or the subculture or wherever they are.

And especially today, that’s so important because we don’t live in the same town. We don’t have the same job forever. You know, we’re in a fluid world, and so we need to be more fluid ourselves. so it we’re seeing in the younger generations that they’re already, you know, like pretty fluid to move around to two or three Tilts as needed very quickly.

 All right. So I wanted to know a little bit about what your what’s next for you. And I know recently we spent a lot of time together cause you were in our laser coaching masterclass. So do you want to share a little bit about that and has it influenced where you’re, where you’re headed now?

DeLisa: Yes. I loved that class. I absolutely loved it. It was such perfect timing for me because I was retiring, and then I had that class to begin to attend and really intensely focused on developing some new skills and understanding of methodology. I’d done coaching for years, right, and mentoring, et cetera.

But I didn’t ever really seriously focused on really executive coaching and a methodology that I could really lean into. And as soon as I read the books and the curriculum, I was like, yes, this is so perfect. That’s exactly the way that I can envision myself really helping someone to transform their lives.

Right, and to go beyond the transactional type of relationship to really helping someone live into their full potential as a leader. And so my focus is shifting from the operating role and working on myself as an operator to working on myself as someone who’s really behind the leaders, the next generation, and helping to lift them and help them to be their best self.

Pam: That’s kind of where all coaches kind of come from. You know, there are so many of us, especially executive coaches, that have had the operational role and it’s kind of helped us through those building up years. And, you know, especially when you’ve reached the C level, you kind of arrived at you know, strong legacy for your career and then it’s time to give back.

And so we call that generativity and it’s actually an Erik Erikson’s psychosocial model is like the final existential question that you ask is, you know, now, can I rise above myself? And all of my aspirations and achievements and give back to the world beyond my life. so it’s, it’s pretty much a calling.

I think that people come to coaching. It happens a lot and I’ve seen a lot of my own clients go there. so it’s always fun to hear, you know, where you’re headed. What, what else are you, are you going to coach? And are you going to advise, like what do you have in mind?

DeLisa: Well, I’m going to continue to do my non-profit work. I have a number of boards that I support which I love. It’s their boards that are focused on business and leaders and entrepreneurship, et cetera. So I’m going to keep doing those things. And then I’m also an advisor for a couple of venture capital organizations. And so I help to, you know, advise the portfolio CEOs, which is really fun.

But I’m adding to my, my buckets, executive coaching. I’m very excited about this and the opportunity to, like I said, you know, help. The next generation of leaders and help them to be successful with what they’re doing. And then also I’m going to be working towards doing some board of director work for for-profit companies.

So I think that’s a great kind of set of buckets. And I think that I’ll be very fulfilled by giving back in all those different ways. 

Pam: I know you’ve always been very interested in entrepreneurship and, contributed and volunteered quite a lot for that, even, even in your executive role, I’m imagining you’re keeping all of those connections. Who would you, do see as your ideal coaching club? 

DeLisa: Well, someone probably software oriented, right? A software company executive, someone who really believes in their ability to develop themselves and, and wants to make that investment in themselves in order to help, you know, their company and the people within their company to be successful.

So I love working with high potential people who take leadership development seriously, but realize that it’s work and to, to be able to grow your capabilities as a leader is not something that just happens naturally, that you really do need to take some time and make that investment. I love working with people like that.

Pam: Yes. And I, I I’m wondering too, like that high growth companies, because you started out, as you said, like Red Hat 500 employees, and during that rapid growth phase I’m sure it was crazy, you know, some of the time, so those kinds of work experiences, you know, when people are in those organizations and you know, the world’s going so fast and they’re recruiting like crazy and doubling the number of employees every year, I can imagine you being incredibly helpful there and you know, they haven’t, they don’t have an HR department or people department, you know, sometimes in the earlier part of that and they have to establish it.

DeLisa: Yeah, definitely. I’ve been talking to a number of people at different companies that are exactly in that space. And it’s so fun because I, I made a million mistakes. 

Pam: That’s what I was wondering. You can help them with, don’t do this. 

DeLisa: That’s a red flag, right. So it’s really fun. 

Pam: That’s really great. Well, I want to ask you just a couple of philosophical things if you don’t mind.

DeLisa: Sure. 

Pam: Okay. The world is in a really strange place right now. And you know, lots is happening. I don’t know, strange is the right description, but we’ve all learned a lot in the last year, year and a half. And there, you know, people are leaving their jobs. They’re moving in new houses. They’re selling houses.

Everybody is changing so much right now. What, what piece of advice would you give to the young leaders of today and what they’re facing heading forward. 

DeLisa: Well, you’re right. There’s such an inflection point. So what I would say is, you know, this is a huge opportunity to leverage the learnings that we’ve had over the last year and a half, particularly on how to be inclusive and with an organization of people that are not in the same place.

And if we need to be really thoughtful and purposeful about how we do return, whatever that looks like, so that we don’t lose those new skills we have gained on being inclusive to everyone across the globe. So be nimble, use those new skills to take your organization to the next level is what I would say.

Pam: Great, great thinking there. I’m sure some people are going to really appreciate hearing that. Well, is there, I always like to ask this one final question and that is, is there anything that I’m not asking that I should be? 

DeLisa: Well, I think that I just need to add that I think a lot about where we are as a, as a world right now. And obviously there’s a lot of polarization, but we think about what leaders can do at this inflection point. And that might, it’s my great hope that leaders can come together and I’m just like this huge believer that with many eyes and lots of participation, we can solve the world’s biggest problems.

And it takes a mindset though of collaboration. Curiosity and respect and the idea that the best ideas can come from anywhere. So open leadership is what I would say.

Pam: We have to close with that cause that’s beautiful. All right, well, thank you so much DeLisa. I am always going to have a huge heart of gratitude for you for taking a chance on me personally, and for us and the early part of Tilt. I give you credit for, you know, being one of our very first customers.

I don’t think we would be here today, if not for Red Hat and for you and for you making that decision. So, thank you so much, 

DeLisa: really grateful to you. Our partnership has had a huge impact on so many people, and I have a huge respect and admiration for you. You are such a mastermind and you’ve made Tilt available to the world and that that’s a really, really amazing thing you’ve done. So thank you. And I’m available for coaching.

Pam: Where can they go if they want to hire you as a coach? 

DeLisa: I think hopefully they can reach me through you, but also, it’s delisaalexander100@gmail.com 

Pam: and I’m sure they can find you on LinkedIn too. 

DeLisa: Yes.