Pam: All right. So, dying to ask you this question. You’re doing work in some really big, serious organizations, fortune 500 organizations. and I know that because we’ve worked together and partnered on some of them, but I don’t get to see your work when you’re out there doing it.

I just know you’re using, you know, the Tilt assessments and probably a lot of other things that you’ve created. I’m dying to find out when a CEO or a team leader or somebody says, my team is dysfunctional. What can you do to help me? how do you react to that?

Janet: You know, one of the things that I think so important is, what’s the servant and what’s the master. What I love about Tilt is it’s a fabulous servant to the awareness conversation that precedes making different choices, and then building capacity to produce different results. Too many leaders start at that I want a different result. And they don’t have thse patience to figure out how to get in the place you’re in, in the first place.

Pam: Hmm, what kind of thinking got you there.

Janet: Yeah. You know, stinking thinking.

Pam: Oh, yeah. I remember that from back in my early sales days.

Janet: Yeah. And the other piece of it is we don’t pay attention until it’s broken.

Pam: Hmm. Yeah.

Janet: So maybe when you think about all the work you’ve done with leaders, it’s like all of the sudden they realize they’re uncomfortable things aren’t happening in the flow. They want things are dramatic and political people are at each other’s throats.

Um, now we’re starting to miss deadlines, so that performance isn’t happening. That’s so rear-view mirror, it was all happening right in front of them, they just weren’t paying attention.

Pam: Yeah. Or them even thinking about how they were involved in it. A lot of times, it will mean my team is the problem. And of course, you know, we want to kindly, you know, invite them to see how they’re playing into or create even creating, some of why that

Janet: And really, from the high side, Pam, right? Leader, don’t underestimate how the choices you make with what you give your attention to and your energy to, and what you acknowledge you’re signaling what’s important. So, if you pull too far back from your team thinking, oh, they’ve got it. And I’m going to go face myself out of here and you say too disconnected and out of relationship for too 

Pam: Hmm.

Janet: They’re going to lose their way; they don’t know what’s important anymore cause you’re absent. You didn’t purposely be absent, you think you’re doing a good thing about delegating to them all, but everything happens in a relational field inside of a system, which of course the company is. And so, there’s a certain by golly, I thought I was doing the right thing and at one level they are, but it’s not that binary.

It’s one aspect and you have to sustain relationships, so what are you inviting people to demonstrate they’re capable of stepping into. Leaders will always say, yeah, there isn’t anybody there that’s worthy of leadership. How have you made that assessment?

Pam: Hmm.

Janet: So, when did it start? What’s your evidence that that’s, what’s going on? What is the way you’ve kept track every step of the way of how they’re progressing? When did you decide that all of the sudden, this highly talented team that you very carefully selected and put together to work in this department or on this initiative? All of the sudden they’re not quality anymore.

Come on. And I do like that. I am a little cheeky.

Pam: What is your Tilt by the way, would you like to share that?

Janet: I’m an impact.

Pam: Impact, the change catalyst.

Janet: Yep, and over time have learned patience. I think that will be my lifelong journey. Can I be 10% more patient?

Pam: Have you experienced any change in your, you know, how you see yourself, your own identity over the years?

Janet: Oh, of course. you know, I it’s an ongoing evolution, and I am a bit of a chunky when it comes to consciousness and raising my own ability to see with a wider aperture on my camera lens. Can I take in more, and allow it to be something that I become with, or rather than doing something to it and it, and I think that’s a value evolution, as in a core value, right? The, that I think that everything around us is incredibly abundant and generous and it’s my own limiting beliefs that have me perceive that something isn’t available and it’s just not true. When I get out of my own way it’s like, oh, there’s so much support and resource for what we want to generate and produces our experience in the world, but it takes work.

Right, you have to be willing to be a good student of your own life and recognize it’s not static. Everything is always in a, in motion.

Pam: Yeah, absolutely. I can relate what you’re saying too. when I see someone taking a personality assessment, a traditional one, and thinking that’s who I am. And you know, you and I have talked about this many times that we’re so much more than that, and we’ve got to step out of that box and, you know, be whole and be, you know, our, true self that is an evolve self that comes out right over the years.

Janet: You’re reminding me of a student who is a, he’s retired now from the air force, but he said an F 15 fighter. And so now he’s flying private charters in his retirement age and learning to become a coach. Wonderful gentlemen, and he said to me the other day, my wife just tells me I should stop doing and be being more. So, I’m going to double down on being more.

Pam: Wow.

Janet: I know. I just like I tried to not roll my eyes. I did ultimately roll my eyes at him and, and I won’t use his name, but I’ll say, so I said, John, did it ever occur to you that if you simply allowed not that you needed to acquire the skill of being, if you simply allowed yourself to be that you might have a different experience.

And he thought for a really long time, and he said, you know, you can’t do that in a fighter. Our job is to eliminate threats, which means you’re always on vigilance. So, there was a very profound moment for him when he realized that what he was asking for was asking him to loosen his grip on his identity. And until that happened, he couldn’t hear what his wife was saying. He was hearing it as one more task and one more assignment, and that will forever change his life. That moment in that, the moment when I said there’s nothing to acquire here, you already have it. I have to give yourself permission to access it.

Pam: When people ask you, what is ego, Janet, what do you say?

Janet: All right. So, my bias is a psychological one. I’m, I’m a rabid fan of Carl Young and depth psychology that followed after it. And in that body of work, ego and shadow are created in equal measure in our lives on purpose. We must develop a healthy ego, we’re social animals, we have to figure out how to get along.

And we learned very early on zero to four, zero to six, and psychologists’ kind of have differences of opinion, but our nature gets supported in that early time. We learn the rules. We don’t come with an operator’s manual, we mimic. Like, oh, if I do that, I get a good result. If I do that, I get a bad result. Take note of that. 

Then we leave of our family and we go to school and we have friends and we do sports, and then we go to another level of school, and then maybe when we get to travel a little bit, we go to the next town over, or we go to another state, or our parents move and change jobs. Every one of those experiences is developing ego that says, how do I get along? And at some point, we start to think we know what we’re doing and that’s something happens, and we realize that maybe we don’t.

Pam: Yeah.

Janet: I Maybe there’s something I’m missing here, and then that begins the journey of reclaiming the whole self. And that’s A lifetime. Some people never get there they go all the way to their death bed and they never develop their whole self.

When they’re 16, they have life experiences that put them in a position to realize, gosh, there’s something more here that I, that I didn’t get early on and then go on that journey and they may do it for spirituality, or they do it through religion or they do it by being in a specific community or tribe. I mean, this is what going to the monastery or going to a nunnery is all about pursuing that calling and then being in the, in the space of the best potential.

So, you know, there is nothing wrong with ego, what happens when we get identified with the ego is that we drop out of any way to have an innate connection anymore. And, you know, you can skin your nose a few times and have some tragic event happen, and it’s a wakeup call when we start the journey.

Pam: Yeah. So, you’ve made me think about this, that each one of us learns from the family that we’re in, what works and what doesn’t work. And then we come into work at, you know, 20 whatever. We come into work and we have all these different experiences that we all think we’re right about because it worked in our own lives.

So that’s where it all comes to, that’s where the clashes come in, right? The egos, the clashes, the conflicts. Nobody’s right.

Janet: And the really difficult thing is that it’s invisible, right? I don’t know, actually until somebody calls my attention to it that I have a habit or preference as a behaving in a certain way. I was socialized to be that way.

Pam: Yeah.

Janet: all of the conversation we’re having about DEIJ in the world right now, everywhere in the world, not just here in the US we want people to behave differently and we say, this is the right way to behave.

Only the body biologically has a whole set of habits that don’t change just because you’ve cognitively understood the value and the benefit of it, or even that you’ve tapped into your compassion and empathy. There’s so much overriding and becoming conscious and deliberate and purposeful about our choices takes energy and focus on the first step is to have it be noticed when we do something that is harmful. 

It doesn’t matter what our intention is, saying oh, the road to H-E-double tooth picks is paved with good intentions, right? Isn’t that, that phrase? Yeah.

Pam: Great. So, so tell me about some of the work that you’re doing, like what does it look like in the last year, especially with these big organizations that are worldwide, that you’re working with their teams, you’re, you know, using assessments and helping people kind of have those wake-up calls. How does it look?

Janet: So, three different scenarios in individual coaching teams and, and learning experiences. cause I think there’s slightly different applications and, you know, I adore the Tilt tool because we’ve got 40 years of personality work with very little to show for it. What it’s basically done is reinforced the egoic posture that there is a right way to be.

So, fix your personality to be a right way. So dishonoring, so dismissive, not working anyway. So, we might as try something else, and I found the Tilt instrument, very aligned to my philosophy around wholeness. So, what I see is that people don’t know how to see, and they also don’t know how to listen.

Those are two skills that we think we’ve mastered by the time we become an adult only we have blank spaces. We’re not able to see things we’ve never experienced before. The book, The Little Prince. Right. The shaman standing on the beach and he sees all of the sudden that the waves are not coming into the shore in the same way.

Ah, something else is going on, but he has no ability, no template, a blank space that that could be caused by a ship. Cause he’d never seen a ship before. How could he? This is what’s going on. So, you’ve got to pull back the shame and the guilt of not being able to see and then teach ourselves to see what we’ve never examined before.

And in organizations, that’s leaders who are looking at data and helping them to see there’s more than one right answer about how to interpret that data. It’s a team who is looking at what they think they can and cannot do, what they’re authorized to do, what their responsibility is and saying really how did you arrive at the conclusion you’ve drawn and what questions have you asked and what might you request that would give you more ease?

In other words, all of those coaching questions are teaching them to see, and to listen differently, to open up that camera lens that I was talking about earlier. And when we’re in leadership development programs or we’re teaching coaches inside of organizations to do the work I just described, it’s about helping them let go of being an expert.

As an insider, they think they know the context and what’s going on with the team that they’re about to go and support. And it’s about being able to suspend that and actually be with what is occurring for the team, because you will be wrong. You are going to see through your own eyes and your own experience and your own worldview.

And you will miss, you will selectively not hear, or not see what’s actually going on in the team. Cause you think you have an answer and that’s not our role as coaches. Our role is to reveal the team to itself

Pam: Right. There, you know, they’re, they’re competent usually at doing what they do for work, but it’s, in a way you can almost work in a defense against seeing what’s actually happening between you and the relationships. Uh,

Janet: you know, one of the things you and I have talked a lot about is psychological safety and how valuable. awareness of each other and our natural strengths and personality, and you know, what, what we’re wanting like that’s a game changer in the conversation. Amy Emerson’s work around psychological safety has been all the rage in organizations.

Boy was that up big time during the pandemic and as people were learning to manage virtual teams and how do I create that? And unfortunately, A by-product of that has been managers starting to say, well, you just need to get resilient. Please. When someone is hurting and struggling in pain, frustrated, uncertain, feeling, and adequate to the challenge and you just say, just go get resilient, not very respectful. 

However, the intention of course, underneath it is resource yourself. Have a practice to, to help yourself be able to tap into reserves you didn’t know you had, but they’re there. And every moment, take another breath. Every moment, take another breath like you were talking about earlier, right?

How do we help our parasympathetic system reset and go to balance? Because when there’s stress in the system, we can’t get to action. And if that stress turns into trauma, which it has for a lot of people, there is no safety to take the risk to do something different. So, the big change that I have seen in this last year is recognition at every level of the organization, the need to slow the pace down.

Now they don’t set any less aggressive goals, but they’ve started to realize if we slow the pace down and we really listen to each other, we have less rework, we have less breakdowns that we have to go fix, we have fewer people who are suffering and we only get half of their productivity instead of all of that productivity.

So that awareness of those trade-offs, again, it’s invisible. We don’t count this stuff on the ballot, but the end result isn’t what we want. So, let’s pause and reflect, what actually it happening as a result of the choices, what other choices could we make. Now, let’s go test that, and this is what teams are seeing when they slowed down.

We always underperformed at organizations because of dynamics. This is what the Tilts was so great about. It’s like, let’s reveal the dynamic. If you want to perform well, eliminate the dynamics that are triggering people to be perceived as less than. In themselves, and then each other. Get that done, you’ll get psychological safety. Isn’t that amazing?

Pam: Yeah, yeah. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about the attack, as the thing that the ego does, and then some of the Tilt patterns, you know, the tendency is to attack outwardly, but then the others that seem like the nice people they’re actually attacking themselves on the inside. So, they, on the outside, you know, you might think everything’s lovely with them, but they’re really hurting themselves.

And so that is equally insidious and, you know, also kind of draws energy out of the organization that could be used for creativity and productivity and this generativity instead of the stealing of energy that happens, and the dynamics that are in the subconscious, as you said,

Janet: One of my early teachers is a man named Warren Bennis who wrote a wonderful book called On Becoming a Leader. I bet you read that when you were at Hilton. Yeah, so that revised edition that came out a couple of years ago, I was thinking about you when I came across this the other day. The learned find themselves in a world that no longer exists, the learned find themselves in a world that no longer exists.

So, this is that notion of the egos worked very diligently, very consistently to acquire knowledge, skills, and ability for a context that no longer exists, right? Expertise is epically out of date, and what is asked for in this environment that is so dynamic now, is the ability to see it clearly and to not be attached with only one right way. To be experimental, to learn fast, to be in a state of wonder about what the possibilities could be. It’s a huge mindset change.

Pam: Yes. Let me ask you about that. Because being, being in a child-like state gives you that blank slate to work from is that what you’re speaking of? 

Janet: Yeah, and you know, in the early days Pam, we all learned about putting toys on the tables and, you know, having doing things to take care of the little kids so we could keep people in wonder. I’m not so sure that was the best way to go. I mean, people had fun with it, but the relevance wasn’t as easy to draw to.

However, if you ask someone how do you imagine an ideal outcome? And then give them the space to construct it. This is what we’re doing in executive education, all over the world, right? You got a case study and then you do a SIM lab, where you get to then see how each other works and then people give you feedback about how you interacted.

That’s where executive education has gone, and I think it’s far superior. It’s fine. Right? You get stimulated to see, oh, let’s see what I can create now. And instead of making it only a childlike thing, we say retain the childlike mindset and your adult consciousness and capability, and you will produce extraordinary results.

Pam: And this is what CEOs want, right. They want innovation that’s as you said earlier at the beginning of the conversation, you ask a CEO what they want, innovation is always in there too. And how do you get innovation? Well, you have to think about what kills innovation first and what kills it is fear. So, everything you’re talking about, like so resonates because it is, that psychological safety that takes the fear away.

Then then you’re just working and you’re excited about what you’re up to, and really approaching it with curiosity and a willingness to learn.

Janet: I want to build on that because when that shows up, we’re no longer competing with the guy or gal sitting next to me. I don’t need to prove that I’m smarter, faster, whatever. Instead, I can go how can you help me with this idea? How can I help you with your idea? Oh, are two ideas can make a third idea? Wow, that’s so cool because we’re focused on that shared purpose, right. From a state of wonder, not trying to prove something to the world. And that’s one of those indicators that you have a psychologically safe environment is that you naturally see people constructing on each other’s ideas. 

And so, a coach with Tilt, I’ll be watching a dynamic in a team and see the places that the relationships are naturally constructive and whether or not, and bring attention to it. Where have you all stepped back from your agreements about leaning into whatever commitments they’ve made? Let’s say they, they made a commitment around likability or openness, whatever it might be and pause for a moment and say, hmm, what habit came in there?

What hijack you from trusting, continuing to pursue those particular traits of openness or likability? What do you want to bring into the system now?

Pam: I’m thinking about how many coaches you have trained in the world, like all of this. How many coaches have you trained in the world? Do you know? 

Janet: Thousands. 

Pam: And then of course you were the president of ICF for a year, traveled all over the world, met coaches all over the world. I, I’m now thinking of a question that I want to know what you’re thinking.

Like what if you could talk to all the coaches in the world all at once. What is the one thing that you would ask them to do or ask them to, to grow in themselves or, you know, what’s your advice for them?

Janet: So, there’s a primary inquiry question that after all these years, I continue to do a week’s worth of journaling about at least once a quarter what’s in the way of me expressing my full potency. In my mind, we are too quick to settle arriving someplace. George Leonard’s work on mastery. There is no destination to mastery, it’s a lived experience every moment. And when we allow for that to be our mindset about our relationships to life, we will always have capacity to meet the moment, no matter what happens. Kind of like we were chuckling before we started the podcast about one more crisis, okay, what am I going to do here? 

And, and it is possible to arrive there even in the most horrific circumstances, I mean look at the women in the war-torn areas who, who get the village back together again and get everybody on their feet, even though they’ve all lost their husbands to the civil war that’s happened. So, I’m not being Pollyannish here. This is in the human capacity, to meet the moment, but only if we accept, we have that capacity back to wholeness again. 

And I think the coaches are uniquely positioned. If they will do their own work to keep digging a little deeper inside, access more and more of their full potency and bring it every moment, not worry about am I being you know, do I have permission to ask this.

You went for permission as a coach to ask any question, you trust client to say I can’t answer that right now, or I choose not to answer that right now and respect that. But if you don’t ask the question, you don’t open the door. If you don’t open the door, they can’t see. If you can’t see, they can’t hear and they won’t make a new choice.

Pam: well, we might be the only one that notices the thing that everybody else is noticing, and doesn’t say it, and you know, if we’re worried that we shouldn’t say it or that they won’t like us or they’ll fire us or whatever. So, I hear a little more edge and having fun too in a way, like being more provocative.

Janet: More provocative and not take ourselves so dang seriously.

Pam: Yeah. I remember last year when everybody was so stressed the first three or four months, and I remember having faith that human beings are resilient. You know, we’re after three or four months, we’re all going to adapt to the new world anyway.

And we’ll all be all right. But I know not everyone is that way, but the resilience is human. In a way, isn’t it? This whole, you know, who cares if the gas is out? That’s just another thing on the news. all right. Well, I also, you know, because you’ve been working with these big organizations. I’m curious about like have you seen some big successes in what you call this success culture, and I’m curious about that term as well, cause I haven’t heard you say that before. Tell me about that.

Janet: One of the things that I think differentiates coaching from some of the other modalities is the way we instill ownership for the outcomes of the partnership, whether it’s a team or an organization or an individual, it doesn’t matter. And in our language and the core competencies that success measures, I will confess I don’t particularly like the word success, but it works in business. That’s what they about. They want successful outcome, so

Pam: Performance.

Janet: Right. Okay. So, if you want a success culture remember, that’s the way things get done around here, which is often steeped in long traditions. And as you talk about with Tilt, you can influence the climate very quickly, by the way that the leader shows up and sets the tone.

We were talking about that earlier, they do, people pay attention to, what they say, people listen to and then helps them as the team know what’s expected, and what good looks like maybe even causing greatness, what good greatness look like. That’s success, so it needs to be defined by the organization, the leader, the team themselves.

And they have a very weak muscle there. 

Pam: How do they define it?

Janet: Yeah, right. It’s been defined by goal, right? What’s the result at the end of the day, month, quarter, year that we’re shooting for, but they don’t spend enough time looking at what experience, emotional experience, physical experience, mental experience do I do every single day that contributes to making progress?

They don’t spend time articulating that. So, it’s very serendipitous. It’s like what shows up on my list today? I mean, how many times I’ve done it, I get six hours into the day and go, you know, the top thing on my list to get done today. I haven’t even started on, dang it.

How did I fall asleep? Well, we all do it. We’re guilty. Yeah. can build that muscle. And I’ve learned to shut off my email for the first two hours. I figure I check it for the first 10 minutes, I’m at my desk and then it turned it off, but that’s a practice I had to learn to do that. Of course, it’s common sense.

But that’s what our desire to be good to my teammates, to contribute, to fulfill my responsibility often overrides what’s in my best interest. What’s my best work rhythm? Well, it’s early in the morning and if I don’t get to my best projects tile two in the afternoon. I have not being optimal in my country attribution.

It gets repeated thousands of employees later. So, whether we’re working with a sales organization, that’s got 40,000 people around the globe and they wake up one day and realize, oh my God, we have 78 playbooks, no wonder our reps don’t know what to do. And no wonder we now have 12 or 15 or 18 steps of escalation. So, a client waiting many weeks instead of 72 hours and we lose the business. 

That’s seeing into the organization, not judging the person who made the 75 playbooks, but noticing whoa, it’s a little out of control. How do we bring this back into something that’s simpler? That goes right to the essence of the way we want to show up moment to moment and have our customers experience the sales process. Reimagine it, and shift.

Pam: Cause culture is about the how to. This is what’s okay around here, this is, what’s not okay around here. We have a language to discuss it. That’s how behavior happens, then incentive plans that reward it and yeah. So, it’s a revamping, it sounds like of the whole how we do things around here.

Janet: Yeah, it takes time and it takes awareness and that’s never a habit. It is always a practice. So, the work we do with leaders to help them let go of needing to have the answer in favor of convening the conversation with the team. So that like the nine blind men on the elephant, if the team members are talking to each other, the elephant comes into view. Otherwise, everybody’s doing their own thing, trying to solve a problem that is not defined well.

Pam: Yeah, this is this is something in the technology and software business, that get specs right up front, or you’re going to build the wrong software.

Janet: Right.

Pam: Ah, that’s a really good analogy.

Janet: A software company that we work with said to me the other day, yeah, we don’t do any alpha or beta testing anymore. We’re just in continuous release.

Pam: Yeah.

Janet: And I said, yeah, it feels like it. On the consumer side, it feels like it. So, if that’s the case, what does it ask of me. It ask them to not attach to things working and being reliable, exactly as it was originally pitched. So, you had to train your customers to recognize how do they build agility and slack into their system and how do they take best advantage therefore, of the tools that they’re receiving?

Pam: I’m hearing all kinds of great advice for the impact Tilt too. Building margin, you know, getting clarity, being patient all those things. That’s awesome. 

Well, I just found out the other day that you read a book last year. I don’t know how you found time to do that, given everything you’ve been doing all around the world. And I also heard that you’re spending three weeks of education this month in coaching months, I think.

Janet: Yeah. International coaching week. Yeah, we have 45 hours of programming starting next Monday.

Pam: I just saw that and we can get continuing education credits if we sign up for that and a copy of your book. So, I just looked up your book, I’ve ordered it. it’s not here yet. But I know that you, you named it Invite Change, which I’m so happy that you did, but that the subtitles quite interesting. Would did you share what it is and tell us about that?

Janet: Lessons from 2020 The Year of no Return. So, I hosted a conference last year in September. that was a labor of love for me, 10 years in the making to find the intersection between coaching and social progress. And it was extraordinary, 50, folks from around the world who are doing big work in social progress applying the amplifying effect of coaching.

So, the conference was in September and on July 27th, the team said, you know, you really need to write a book, Janet. Like you guys have lost your minds. I have no interest in the book. It’s never been on my bucket list. I’m not doing it. Well, the next thing I know about 24 hours later, I get encouraged with a title and a basic theme and just write. We’ve cleared your calendar.

Pam: Wow. Your team doesn’t take no for

Janet: Yeah, they don’t take no for an answer. That’s right. Well, they know me, right. They know I have an impact. So, they called me to my true Tilt, right.

Pam: that’s amazing

Janet: Anyway, you know, clearly what I wrote in the book was my, my life experience of the last 25 plus years of being in the human development space.

And, and I felt very strongly that we’re at an inflection moment, that the pandemic is simply a symptom of a system on this planet that is so out of balance and that if we’re to find a new balance, it means we need to dismantle systems that are actually have been out of date and have been decaying for some time.

We need to dismantle them and we need to be more awake about how we reconstruct them. As simple as how does a manager build team when they don’t get to see their people, when they have a history of doing teaming activities, by taking people out to a ropes course or having a big event at the resort. You know, name it, in person.

So, there are a lot of those kinds of fundamentals that have just been shook up. There is no shore to hold on to, and I like you agree that the human condition has a lot of capacity to meet the moment. It’s up to some of us who are in this role of supporting human developments to keep asking them to trust that in themselves.

So, it was writing the book to call it out. I wrote the book in the second person voice, it’s provocative. most people have said to me, I’ve had to read a couple of pages and put it down and come back to it later.

I read the book the second time. I’m now reading it the third time and doing the inquiry questions at the end of each chapter.

So, I’ve offered an invitation for people to find their own change map. I had somebody say to me, you know, I just realized that the word invite is in front of the word change. I said, oh, okay. They said really, all I saw was change in gold on the cover of the book. That’s all I saw. And I said, well, what does that tell you?

And she said that I have helped change as a, as a target in the future. Something to be achieved later or something that when I’m ready, I’ll do. And she said, and I got up on the halfway through the book and I realized, oh, this is what she’s talking about is my job to figure out how to invite what I want. Yeah, that’s right. You don’t have to be a victim to change. You can actually produce the life experience that you find most enlivening and useful to you.

Pam: So, inviting it from yourself.

Janet: Exactly, exactly. And that’s self, with my team, with my family, with my community, however you feel about social progress and someone. And, I actually think the privilege of that as the human being carries the responsibility to follow through on it. So, the book has both an igniter and a guidebook and a little bit of a personal story as well.

Pam: I can’t wait to read it now.

Janet: Please write a review when you’re done.

Pam: I will. I totally will. And as a fellow impact, I can relate to that reaction of course, because when people read their Tilt report, some of them, you know, it’s a provocative report. You know, some of them don’t want to read it. I always say you can’t unread it. It’s going to sit there now working you, whether you like it or not.

Janet: That’s right.

Pam: I’m seeing your book being like that now.

Janet: Yep. 

Pam: so, I want to close by asking you just because I know you have things that are, you know, there’s always some nugget that I missed. Is there anything I’m not asking that, that you’d like to share?

Janet: I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the exploration we’ve had, so thanks for the thoroughness of your questions. And I think what I’m most just focused on right now is that we all have voices we’re not using. We have perspectives and points of view and positions not to be defended, but to be added into the collective discourse. 

Getting positional, and not choosing to engage in the dialogue will keep us stuck in a world that’s in chaos right now. If we want to restore balance, we must step into the dialogue that allows us to see where balance might arise from, allows us to listen more deeply or what we missed. That’s created the feeling of pain and suffering for other people.

And to allow for a sense of belonging to come back into our fields, we belong to a calm human race. There are many races within the Black race, Brown race, the Native American race, the Asian race, the Hispanic race, that African race that keep going, right. There are many, many, many ways in which we express ourselves as human beings, all legitimate, all worthy, all important to acknowledge and engage. 

And right now, we keep being so binary in our thinking, so right wrong. There’s no such thing, just like in coaching, there’s no right or wrong question. There’s just another question, another choice that might serve a little better. And we all have a responsibility in order to enjoy the privilege of the freedom of being a human uniquely expressing in the world.

We have a responsibility to engage others along with us. So that’s what has my attention to what I’m thinking about lately,

Pam: Well, Janet I’m always so inspired by the things that you, say to us in this profession. So, thank you for all of your leadership for so many years and your endless, boundless, dauntless energy. Thank you for being here.

Janet: Yeah. It’s my pleasure. And I look forward to hearing your next episodes and where you take this and good on you for bringing this to the world.

Pam: So, I want to make sure everybody knows where to find you. You are invitechange.com, right? And your book, your book again is the same name, but it’s on Amazon so they can buy it there. Anything else?

Janet: It’s also audible, it’s in e-format. It’s on audible format and I got to read it.

Pam: You did the reading?

Janet: I did the reading on the audible. Yup, and a paperback and hardback on invitechangebook.com.

Pam: Super. Well, I hope a lot of people buy your book this year. It sounds like it’s quite interesting to, you know, to have something like that to provoke our thinking right now. All right, well thank you for being with us and I hope maybe we’ll have you back again another time.

Janet: great. I’d love to do that.

Pam: All right, I’ll see you again soon.

Janet: Take care.