Donald Thompson: Give us a flavor of what your goals are with UNC Charlotte and what your charter is in that role as a Chief Diversity Officer for a major university. 

Brandon Wolfe:  I jokingly tell everybody that, I’m basically Walmart as it relates to diversity work here, but, the world, the role is relatively simple, I’m just the chief strategist for how do we implement, nourish and sustain DEI throughout the institution in a manner that’s clearly reflected in our policies, our practices and our institutional norms. It’s a pretty comprehensive role, but, you know, thanks to Chancellor Gaber for creating this position and bringing in, my predecessor, Dr. Cheryl Waites Spellman as a special assistant to kind of both set the table for me. 

The great thing about this role, which is also one of the challenges is that no two days are the same., when you think about DEI work is integrated into every aspect of our institution. This work has evolved beyond enrollment and recruitment and retaining a diverse population, but it’s also how we’re now looking at.

How do we sustain that work? How do we, how is our work integrated into the practice of not just higher education in what we do inside the classroom, but also how does it impact the institutional mission, because as universities, we’re not just places for higher learning, we’re also a business. So what does DEI look like in the frame of supply diversity?

What does it look like in a frame of how do we treat our employees?, what does it look like in the frame of the services we provide to, and I would say greater social responsibility to the community around us because we’re not an island within our own community. So this is our charge. This is our mission, and it’s all goals and support and dovetailing with the, the larger university strategic plan. 

Donald Thompson: That’s really powerful. One of the questions that I have, and you mentioned kind of the integration of DEI with all the fabrics, right. Of a university. And you know, if you think about any large university, right, you mentioned right, you have employees, you have a link to the community, you have a function as a business to operate properly. 

Here’s my question. How do you get somebody to understand the impact of DEI when they’re just starting to hear that term? They don’t really understand its impact in the way they work. What are some of the things that you do say to, to help people on that initial momentum burst right, of their DEI journey? 

Brandon Wolfe: I say it starts with relationship building. I take this from my grandmother and this has been, the framing of this work for me is that people don’t care what you know till they know that you care. So in that round, we find common understanding, like regardless of where we’re from, regardless of what we believe, where we are in terms of social economic class or race, all these factors, we all find common ground around humanity, right? 

At the very core, our, our very humanity, we all want to feel protected. We all want to feel embrace. We all want to feel. We all want to feel that we’re, that we’re contributing and that we’re valued in the work that we do. And we also want to feel as if there were steps in a sense that we can bring our whole selves to the table, and we can thrive and be successful together.

Now, the key thing about success is that success is a partnership. It’s you and I figuring out what works best and how we can advance it together for the sake of the entire community. So that’s kind of exactly where I start. Right? So for, so at the, at the most basic level is the question then becomes how do I champion and protect your humanity in a way that allows for you to do what you do really well.

Donald Thompson: That’s powerful. I like the phrase; how do we advance together? Because there’s a lot in that statement. One, one, when you think about the word advance, we’re moving forward. We have a lot of history that can divide us when we have those conversations, but ultimately we need that history to determine the better way forward, but advancing together, it gives that that intersection, that we all need each other. And sometimes that’s hard for people to remember to understand and apply, right. That if we’re going to do something significant and universities are built and designed to do something significant, then we can’t do things in silos, which brings me to my next question. 

Universities are big organizations, business schools, educational schools, medical schools, research, science. These are all different types of thinkers, different types of individuals. How are you helping bridge the gap with folks that have different perspectives on the world, in a university system, and then bringing that DEI together for that better culture for you and UNCC. 

Brandon Wolfe:, it goes back to what I said before, right?

It’s about relationship building. I’m one of the people who believe that there’s not enough seats at the table, we just, we just continue to extend the table. So, the beauty of this work is that we’re not looking for everybody to agree with what we’re doing. I believe that diversity of thought is what makes us better. 

I think that if we’re not being challenged, if we’re not being critiqued, we’re not being refined in the fires of, of just of our differences and the different personalities and all the things that come together that, you know, for those people who are allies of this work, those who are activists of this work, and you have those who are apathetic, or even antagonistic against his work. I mean, that exists. That is the very real reality that we’re in. 

The key is not to focus so much on our differences, but to focus on our shared strand, right? Our shared strand is that no matter where we’re from, no matter what we think of what we value or how we prioritize, we all have a vested interest in the university moving forward.

So how do we come together in such a way and settle on strategic priorities on advancing this university in a manner that does not dehumanize individuals, but how they think, how they feel or what they believe. And that’s, that’s really, again at the core of this work is about how are we able to sustain relationships to continue to move forward.

Donald Thompson: One of the things that I, as I have the opportunity to talk with a lot of leaders in the work that we do sustainability comes up a lot. Right? How do we not just get something started, right, where everyone is excited, right? But when the work starts, when the conflict that can lead to harmony, because sometimes you got to have some healthy tension-based conversations to lead to a harmonious future. Right, it’s that pushed through. So here’s the question that I have for you. 

Being a leader in this space is a highly emotive, a highly emotional type work, highly engaged. I read a stat of a very high percentage of burnout in HR leaders and chief diversity leaders. What are some of the things that you do as a leader to keep yourself energized, to keep yourself fresh, to keep yourself motivated when some of this work is there’s tough days to it, right and there’s days where it doesn’t feel like we’re making progress, even though we’re pushing against this rock. What are some of the things that you do to keep future forward on your mind? 

Brandon Wolfe: Oh my gosh. So I have a number of things. first, everything I do is grounded in my faith. and, and in my faith, I’ve learned that this work that I’m engaging in that’s become a, that’s become, my ministry is bigger than me. And so the chances are of me and my role undoing 400 plus years of systemic oppression.

That is, it’s very slim that I’ll be able to accomplish all these things in my lifetime, but what I can do is make an impact and take a farmers’ approach to where I know that even if I don’t do this, I am planting seeds to prepare the next generation to continue this work that we’re doing. So I really take delight in knowing that, and this is why I kind of get the brag a little bit is that, 

in higher education, I’m proud to say that in my work I’ve committed hundreds of attorneys into the field, physicians, engineers, engineers, teachers, other CDLs I’ve mentored who’ve coming up. Who’ve now are sitting at the helm of another institution to nurses, other healthcare workers. So I. As I continue to do this work, I am replenishing the field. I’m growing an army of people who are just not only culturally sensitive, but culturally responsive. And who’s willing to continue this journey. And it’s this push for equity in various spaces. So that is what helps me. 

The other thing, being very practical and having boundaries, to be transparent. I think a couple years ago I was dealing with burnout and it was because of, I saw something on the, on the internet that triggered me. I believe it was, someone was murdered., I can’t, I don’t remember the person who was murdered, but watching a commentary on it. Just, it did something to me and it was in it.

And I said, you know what? I just need to unplug. So I take place and make it a point to just fast away from time to time to help replenish my spirit also too, when I take the time to read. So there’s one book, actually, two books that I read, one was a Darren to be great by Berne Brown which kind of helped me recenter this work, but also it was, is also booked by, Arianna Huffington called Thrive, it was called Thrive, and it was in that book. It helps you to really rethink and question yourself about why do I do what I do, but also what does success ultimately look like? Right. And a part of that success is, you know, having a balance and rhythmic lifestyle.

So I take that with me, with everything I do. So. I’m not just doc, I’m not Dr. Wolfe once I leave this office, when I leave this office on Brandon, I’m silly. I I’m, I’m moody. I have my alone time. I get to be a husband. I have a privilege to do so many other things. So keeping that balance helps me to continue to engage in this work because as I continue to live like that life that I live continues to inspire me.

And that becomes my life. So everybody that I meet along this journey, whether it’s students, whether it’s the janitor, the people at the gas station, I know who I’m doing this work for because I’m preparing the next generation. 

Donald Thompson: I love that. I, it’s bigger than me, but what can I do, right? That, that was the thing that jumped off the page. Right? It’s what can we do to make an impact with the tools we have the position that were in, and make that path better for those that come after. And the phrase that you used or a way of describing it, not just being culturally sensitive, but being culturally responsive.

What I’d like to do is give you some space to share a thought, promote something that’s happening at the university. What would you like to share that I haven’t asked you about? Right. In terms of thinking something, reading something that’s going on in the university, something you want to promote, but I just want to give you some space to share something I might not have even known to ask.

Brandon Wolfe: Well, a couple of things. One is that we’re in the process of building out something that I believe will be just phenomenal. I love this work. I’m serious about this work I’m invested in this work., we have a chancellor who is, bar none, exceptional, and we’re going to be doing a lot of amazing things, not just in the realm of DEI, but in terms of solidifying our leadership and taking the ham of the great work that we’ve been doing for many years at this institution.

So I know the chance to have made a mention of something earlier this week and I’ve been having it on repeat and she was like, we’re no longer a hidden. We, we, we, we’re no longer hidden jewel. We have to continue to just take our stand and pat ourselves out there. So, with that being said, I’m doubling down, be on the lookout for what we’re doing as an institution. We’re going to do some amazing things. The other I will like to say is get involved like this, this work doesn’t happen without you. And this isn’t just to the people on our campus, but this is the people in our community as well.

We all have a shared responsibility and UNC Charlotte is prime as, as one of the major institutions in the city of Charlotte to, shift the culture and to strengthen in the economic impact and the recovery of our, of our city, as well as our nation. And this is how we move forward and advance our community for this generation and the many to follow. 

Donald Thompson: I think it’s a powerful way to end it. I don’t have anything to add. I think that it is both my pleasure to have met you and we’re now a part of one another’s network. Absolutely. 

Right. And so if anything that we can do with the diversity movement, we have a lot of free content on our site, relative to, learning guides, research materials on DEI, a lot of various videos and research.

Certainly we work more with corporations, but we do have a handful of university organizations that we partner with a large-scale university. And it’s not because organizations and universities can’t do that. Sometimes they need an innovation partner. We share materials that help them do some of the work they’re doing faster, right?

Whether it’s our library of 500 plus micro videos that can be integrated, or I will tell this to our audience, but also to use a shameless pitch., while I got you, is that our leaders Jackie Ferguson and Roxanne Bellamy have just produced their first book together. It is called The Inclusive Language Handbook.

And one of the reasons that we found this very powerful is that getting people to change their language, instead of saying, man hours saying person hours, it’s not saying police man, saying officer, understanding our pronouns, understanding how our language can rise people up or tear people down. Right? Understanding the Genesis from phrases, like the rule of thumb, things of that nature. 

When people improve their language in conversation. It gives us a better platform for the broader work we want to do. And so we try to start everyone with let’s just speak better to one another. Let’s just be more inclusive in our language. 

And what we find is people nod their head, because it doesn’t make it such this monolithic thing that they have to change. We can just change how we communicate a little bit better, one conversation at a time. And so we’re finding this, this book, get a lot of great traction and, and we’d love your feedback as a, as a, as a leader. So I’ll probably send you a copy and, and hope that we’ll, we’ll get that on your reading list. 

Brandon Wolfe: I think it is shifting the dialogue from cultural competency to coach humility and that this is a lifelong practice. This isn’t just something you check the box on, you move on, but we’re constantly living in learning and growing with each and every interaction. 

Donald Thompson: That’s exactly right. Well, listen, my friend, I have absolutely enjoyed it. I want to be careful with your time, but I just, from talking with you, like, I can just feel UNCC has made a great choice and, I’m glad that.

And as someone that is investing dollars, sending my daughter to your institution, it makes me happy that the chancellor and the leadership of your organization care enough to bring on somebody of your caliber to lead the charge. And so really be thoughtful about how DEI matters to the whole university.

And I, and I mean that sincerely because where we send our kids to be educated, we have to trust that institution has them at the center. Right of, of what they’re doing and, and it seems so 

Greg Brown: Sometimes the entrepreneur it’s hard because they know so much about their business and they want to tell it all to you. And you’re a lay person. You don’t know that like 

an entrepreneur who can’t connect with a lay person is very unlikely to be successful in securing angel capital. They might be able to cause we’re generalists, right? We’re going to have three companies pitch at our meeting. One’s a consumer product, one’s a SAS business and one’s a biotech company, three completely different things.

And we may or may not have any knowledge about any of those things, right? So we’re not specialists versus a venture capitalist who may only do biotech’s. You can speak with them in a really technical way. But if you’re standing up in front of Charlotte Angel Fund and they’re a hundred people with diverse backgrounds, you, you’ve got to assume they know about nothing.

And communicate at a super high level, what it is your company is doing, why it’s important, why you’re, you know, why you’re the right team and why this is the right moment in. It’s that storytelling that is, I think, a really valuable entrepreneurial skill and one that’s, at times under appreciated by the entrepreneur.

Right? You think about it, entrepreneurs are always telling stories, whether that’s pitching employees or customers or investors or whatever, like they got to articulate different versions of it, but that ability to tell that story, the individuals who can do that well, have a big leg up on those who can’t.

Greg Brown: So I think the, one of the things that I think about the Charlotte, I’ll say the business ecosystem here, it’s a little broad it’s broader than the startup community is I think we’re, we’re, markedly adept at integrating newcomers on all, and I think that’s been part of the success. I know specifically of it in Charlotte, but I’m sure it applies to the Triangle as well. Almost nobody’s from here. Right? So you have to be fairly adept at integrating new people, both from the personal and professional perspective for that to work out.

 And I think Charlotte is, you know, I I’ve heard people, you know, they worry about, well, you, you got to be able to get in the right circles, have the right connections. I promise you, if you make a little bit of effort, you can meet with the exception, don’t put Michael Jordan on your list, right.

That’s hard, but make a list of 20 people that you want to meet in Charlotte over the next year, and go ahead and put Hugh McColl on there. You’ll make 15 of those happen, right? So you can do it. Charlotte is accessible which from both a business and a personal point of view, which I think is a huge competitive advantage for this community.

And it may well apply, you know, in, in other areas, whether people who are listening to this podcast reside, but I’m most familiar with it here. And I know I know it’s a welcoming place, right? Both in the entrepreneurial ecosystem and otherwise, and we’re not once in a while we have a little bit of angst here and say, gosh, you know, how come Charlotte startup ecosystem not even the equal of the triangle, cause it’s not right. 

You know, but we got some good things happening here. It is well advanced from where it was when I moved here a dozen years ago at my wife’s urging. I’ll put it this way, sometimes an entrepreneur will say to me, do I need to move somewhere else to make my business successful?

And my answer to that is if you’re doing something good to great, capital will find you. I don’t care where you like, whether you’re in Asheville or Charlotte or Wilmington or whatever, if you’re good to great capital will find you there’s capital out there eager for deal flow.

If you’re going to do something, if you’re doing something that’s kind of fair to midland, like you may have to get yourself somewhere where capital is a little less discerning, but the reality is you’re not, you’re not out to do something mediocre, are you? You’re going to be good to great. So, no, I don’t think you have to move to have business success.