Nothing is a problem until it gets to the client, and Bob’s looking a little green: Conversations with Sisters

On today’s episode with Courtney and Dana, they talk about the value of partnerships, if some people are truly unemployable, why nothing is a problem until it hits the client, and of course, the Bob incident from their childhood.

If you haven’t listened to the conversation with Morgan Montgomery from Paisley and Jade, it’s the episode before this one, on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast app.


Courtney Hopper: Welcome to Hustle and Gather, a podcast about inspiring the everyday entrepreneur to take the leap. I’m Courtney. 

Dana Kadwell: And I’m Dana.

Courtney Hopper: And we’re two sisters who love business. On this show, we talk about the ups and downs of the hustle and the reward at the end of the journey. 

Dana Kadwell: We know all of the challenges that come with starting a business. Between operating our wedding venue, doing speaking and consulting, and starting our luxury wedding planning company, we wake up and hustle every day.

Courtney Hopper: And today, we’re talking just the two of us about last week’s episode with Morgan Montgomery, co-owner of the boutique rental company, Paisley and Jade. If you haven’t heard last week’s episode, go give it a listen and come back to hear our thoughts. 

Dana Kadwell: All right, Courtney. Let’s get started.

Courtney Hopper: One, I love Morgan. Like, I love talking to her every time I see her. We have a relationship with her outside of this podcast, via NACE. 

Dana Kadwell: Yes. 

Courtney Hopper: Yes. Small, nice plug if you’re in the event industry, you join NACE. 

Dana Kadwell: Yes, drink the Kool-Aid. It’ll be good. But what was your, what was your biggest takeaway speaking with Morgan? 

Courtney Hopper: So, I really loved her talk on risk tolerance. She talked a little bit about her level of risk tolerance, how it was like probably slightly higher than the average person. So, kind of speaking on that, also talking about a partnership that may not be quite as risk tolerant as you are, I felt like really resonated. 

Dana Kadwell: Yeah, I agree. I definitely think that. I mean, a lot of people know, like, our story that we had lunch at Bear Rock Cafe and–

Courtney Hopper: Yep. 

Dana Kadwell: — And Courtney, I was wedding shopping for a venue. And we didn’t find one we really loved and yada, yada, yada, same old, same old. But really the true part of the story is that I did not take Courtney seriously. I was just eating my sandwich and I was like, “Okay. Yeah, yeah, whatever,” because Courtney is a dreamer and I’m just not. I am a reality person. I see things very black and white. I am not a gray at all. 

Courtney Hopper: That’s accurate. 

Dana Kadwell: And so for me, I’m not very risk adverse. So then Courtney came back to me, like, two days later. I was like, “So, I think Megan’s getting married and we’re going to plan her wedding.” And I was like, “What the hell are you talking about?”

She’s like, “Remember, we had lunch at Bear Rock?” And like, “This is what we’re doing.” And I was like, “Oh, okay, this is what we’re doing.” But I didn’t give up my job. I mean, I didn’t quit. It wasn’t like I was like, “This’ll be a fun hobby, I guess.”

Courtney Hopper:  Yeah. 

Dana Kadwell: And then it turned into so much more than a fun hobby. 

Yeah. But I, I totally loved that. Because I feel like to me, like, that’s like the sweet spot of Dana and I, is, it’s like the yin and the yang. And maybe for like Morgan and Perkins as well, we were like, “Hey, like, I had this amazing idea. It has to work out. It’s going to be fine.” And you’re actually like, “No, it doesn’t have to work out. But to safeguard against it working out, maybe we should do X, Y, Z.”

And I’m like, “Huh, you’re right. Maybe we should do X, Y, and Z.” So, I guess the question is, entrepreneurship, is it more successful with a partnership than with, as a single person just saying, “I’m going to do this?” 

Courtney Hopper: Yeah. I mean, is that your —

Dana Kadwell: That was not my takeaway. I’m just elaborating on that. 

Courtney Hopper: Okay. No, I think that there are definitely, like, trials that come with a partnership, like Dana speaks all the time about. Like, having to share your paycheck with a partner.

Like, yeah, I know that sounds like a lot of money, but try splitting it in two, right? Which is true. But at the same time, like I’m, even like, just take 2020 for example, which is like just literally one microcosm of our business. We’ve been a business for what? Like 15 years now or something like that? 

Well, you just said you’re about to celebrate your 15-year anniversary. So, we’ve been together as business partners for 15 years. And just even, like, looking at 2020, there’s so many times that I’m thinking, “Thank God that I have a partner to refer to.” Or even on a phone call with a client where I’m like, “I can’t give you that answer because I need to talk to my partner. I can’t make this whole decision.”

Dana Kadwell: Right.

Courtney Hopper: And it’s like a scapegoat, it’s a sounding board. You, like, get to a– get out of the emotion, I think a little bit, and you get a little bit more to the meat of things. So, I love the idea of a partnership, like, just for those, like, super practical purposes in general, right?

Dana Kadwell: And it’s so funny because we, a couple of days ago, we’re doing a branding shoe and one of our favorite hair and makeup people were doing hair and makeup and she is really good friends with another wedding planner and venue owner in the industry. And I was just asking, like, how she was doing because I hadn’t caught up with this planner in a while and I was, like, I really need to call her and chat with her.

And she was like, oh, she was so stressed about this open house. She was like, she called me a thousand times. Like, you know, and I’d be like, “Yes, it’s fine.” And she, I’d proofread her emails. I was like, “Oh, so basically you’re her partner.” And she goes, “Yes, I am her partner.” And I think that that is sometimes the beauty of, of being in an industry where you recognize that to have a successful event, you really have to, it’s a team effort.

And I think with entrepreneurship, a lot of times it has to be a team effort and it may not be someone who maybe has financial stock in your company, but it’s someone that you trust, and you value and that you see as that sounding board. And so to me, if I was by myself in 2020, and I had to deal with the hell of the clients, the very few, we’ve had like– 99% have been fantastic.

But the 1% that make you stay up at night and you have to have these hard conversations with, I don’t think I would have been, like, I can make the decision because I’m the boss and be like, “Well, I had to take it back to my board.” And the board may very well be some random friend that I have who knows nothing about my business, and maybe my husband, but I think there is a lot of safety in that as well.

Courtney Hopper: Absolutely. 

Dana Kadwell: And creating those, not real partnerships, but partnerships. 

Courtney Hopper: Yeah. I think it’s, like, nice to have someone to reflect off of and someone to talk you down off the ledge, like, sometimes you just need to be talked down and be like, this is not all, like, going to hell in a hand basket. Like this is, this is resolvable, right?

And like, this is what I was thinking. And this is what I was thinking. You can come to a middle, a middle ground. What was your biggest takeaway from that? 

Dana Kadwell: Honestly, yeah. I just, right off the bat, it was the realization when she talked about getting fired or demoted from every job and, you know, knowing Morgan, looking at her and you’re like, “Yeah, I can totally see that.”

Not because she isn’t a great employee, but because she has so much passion and heart, and you can tell she, she just emotes an entrepreneur. So to me, the question that really came to my head, are some people just simply unemployable because they’re not meant to be employees, they’re meant to be a boss?

Courtney Hopper: Yeah. I mean, I, I mean, I’ve never gotten fired from a job. Let me just put that out there. Like, I’ve left every job. I’ve never gotten fired. 

Dana Kadwell: I haven’t got fired. I’ve had very strong talking’s to and I was teacher one time.

Courtney Hopper:  I did have a very strong talking to as a teacher, but I was calling that principal on the carpet. It was ridiculous. Same principal, by the way. It was very, very odd. He was our middle school principal. He moved to the high school principal. So we had his–

Dana Kadwell:  And it’s not even in the same town. It was like one of those–Apex, almost Raleigh.

Courtney Hopper: Yes, Apex, yes. 

Dana Kadwell: It was just bizarre. 

Courtney Hopper: Just this very bizarre thing because he was my principal and Dana’s principal.

Dana Kadwell:  Like, “Are you Courtney Hopper’s sister?” and I said, “Yes.” He goes, “Oh, maybe that’s why I had to start talking to you.”

Courtney Hopper: That’s true. Yeah. No, I do think that. Like, I, I never thought that, like, personally, like,” Oh, I’m not employable because I’m too entrepreneurial in spirit.” But I definitely always had the side hustles going. Like, it couldn’t just be what I was doing because it wasn’t fulfilling enough.

But in the hiring process, like as we’ve hired several people, there were several people that have come across our desk or we’ve interviewed and I’m like, “I don’t want to invest in you.” Like, I can tell that what you really want to do is go off and do your own thing. 

Dana Kadwell: And I mean, and to be clear, like, we are not squashers of dreams, so it’s not that I look at somebody and say, “Okay, if I employ you, you’re going to steal all my secrets and you’re going to become this amazing wedding planner/venue owner.” Because we’re actually a very open book and not very proprietary in how we do things.

Courtney Hopper: Not at all. 

Dana Kadwell: I mean, I don’t know, maybe we should be, but we’re not. But really what it comes down to, it’s the exhaustion of training. And so, there are some positions for us where I look at it and I’m like, “Okay, this is a high turnover job,” because there’s no way someone’s going to stay in this position for longer than three or four years.

And if I can invest, if I’m, if I had a Morgan, right, that’s like, “I’m going to go all in, I’m going to own this, I’m going to do all these things. I’m going to be high energy and amazing.” And I know in the back of my mind that, okay, that’s great. And you’re going to be perfect for this job, but I know you’re not going to last more than two years because you’re going to get bored, you’re not going to like the way I do things, and you’re going to want to move on to your own thing.

I think I’d be okay with that for certain positions.

Courtney Hopper: Mhm. Yeah. 

Dana Kadwell: For other positions, it would just really piss me off. Like, “Ugh, I just spent all this money training you and getting you here.” And, and there are some positions where, like, I don’t want you to go replicate what we’re doing because–

Courtney Hopper: Right. 

–Then it’s like a direct competition.


Dana Kadwell: You know what I mean? 

Courtney Hopper: Yeah. 

Dana Kadwell: I feel like it’s like a combo of both. Like–

Courtney Hopper: I think it’s, I think also it’s different when I think about hiring a planner, like, say to join the Collective than it is about hiring someone to work for the Bradford, right? I’m like, “You want to replicate the Bradford? Good luck to you.” 

You know, like it was a lot of work. It didn’t make a lot of money for a long time. So, I hope you have some deep pockets because it’s going to suck for a really long time. You know, but when it comes to, like, say planning.

Dana Kadwell: Right, but the issue that I have with planning is that you have people who think–

Courtney Hopper:  I think that.

Dana Kadwell: — They should be entrepreneurs and they think that they can–

Courtney Hopper: But they’re really not. 

Dana Kadwell: –Do it. And they’re really not because you look at it and you say no, but you might need a little bit more freedom in the company. But like what I’m looking at, your work ethic and what you can produce, like you still have so much more to learn.

And, and not even that, but you don’t have the right gumption for it. You don’t have, like, the “Steel balls” quote, unquote, to like, to get through it. Because it’s, it’s just not easy. And I, I do think that–

Courtney Hopper:  I’m actually, I’m coining “Grow some ovaries.” You don’t have the ovaries to get through it. 

Dana Kadwell: That is true. Yes, that, I think that is the fallacy in a lot of people. It’s like, “Oh, well you must make X amount of money.” And planning to me is the true, like, it is hard–

Courtney Hopper: Hard to make money. 

Dana Kadwell: –To make money in planning. And it’s so much easier to make money in a venue. It’s more black and white to me in a venue. Like, it’s very clear–

Courtney Hopper: Your profit and loss is very, very clear. 

Dana Kadwell: –Very clear.

Courtney Hopper: Yeah.

Dana Kadwell: And you can make those changes. But that’s what I think is I look at it and it’s like, so, if I had an entrepreneur, because I do think our collective is filled with a bunch of entrepreneurs and it’s worked out really well for us because we’ve made the partners in our business, but it’s the people who think they can be entrepreneurs.

Courtney Hopper: Yeah.

Dana Kadwell: And that act in that way and actually were like, “Oh, you don’t understand what it means to do it.” 

Courtney Hopper: And I think too, just like, as a business owner and growing as a business owner, I remember our first time we hired someone full time, I was to run the Bradford. I was so nervous. Because I mean, we didn’t take, like, taking on that salary lightly. Right? 

Like, we knew we had a responsibility to this person. It could really, ultimately end up, you know, being a big sacrifice for us in the end and it, and it worked out right. But that person took the Bradford and kind of grew it to a point. And I remember when she told us that she was leaving, like, I literally cried because I just, like, couldn’t wrap my mind around the semi-permanence of it. Like, what? I thought you were always going to be here. I can’t imagine anybody else in that position. Like, who, who’s going to take care of the Bradford like you do? Because I don’t want to go back to doing that. And we hired somebody else and they elevated it even a little bit more. Right?

 And they weren’t permanent. So they were there for a few years. And I remember when that person was like, you know, “I’m thinking of moving on.” I was like, “All right, fresh blood.” Like, what’s this going to mean?

Dana Kadwell: Which is funny because she heard the story about how we cried when the last one left. And she’s like, “Are you not upset?” And we’re like, it’s really a testament to who you are, like, that we’re not– we’re upset because we’re going to miss you, personally. But–

Courtney Hopper: Right. 

Dana Kadwell: We’re not upset because you have– you’ve left the Bradford in a place that we can hand it off to somebody else. 

Courtney Hopper: Yeah. 

Dana Kadwell: There isn’t that fear.

Courtney Hopper: It wasn’t a fear. 

Dana Kadwell: Right. Which is where the tears, I guess the first person was love and fear. 

Courtney Hopper: It was love and fear. I still talk to her, but yeah, I mean, so it’s just, it’s like very strange, like, on that journey and you, like, hand off your baby to somebody and you want for them to take ownership of it, right?

Because you want to relinquish some of that ownership and responsibility, but like not too much ownership. So I think it’s, like, a really fine line, honestly. 

Dana Kadwell: It is a really fine line. And she brought up an interesting point, or I think you did when you were talking about hiring someone that is similar to you.

Courtney Hopper: Yeah. 

Dana Kadwell: And that, oh my gosh, you have learned that lesson so many times. And we’ve learned, more importantly, what job is great for what personality type, but we one, I hate, I don’t hate sevens. Because I love my seven sitting next to me, but I will never employ another seven. Like, a visionary person unless our objective is to open up another business.

Courtney Hopper: Right. 

Dana Kadwell: And I would put them as a manager or something, but–

Courtney Hopper: Right. 

Dana Kadwell: –Currently, no. And I, and I don’t– 

Courtney Hopper: I mean, does the office need another Courtney? Really? 

Dana Kadwell: No, it doesn’t need another Courtney. But it does need another Dana. 

Courtney Hopper: That’s absolutely true. 

Dana Kadwell: So, but I I’m an eight and I feel like the office could handle another eight. 

Courtney Hopper: More subtly. 

Dana Kadwell: More so, like, but I think eights are just, they’re, you know, very justice, black/white, strong headed, but that’s a, like an eight is a great salesperson. 

Courtney Hopper: A salesperson might be an eight. I have no idea. 

Dana Kadwell: Just an eight or a one. I don’t even know. 

Courtney Hopper: Yeah. Somewhere around there. 

Dana Kadwell: Yeah. But for planning and for our client interface and we love threes.

Courtney Hopper: Yeah. Or twos.

Dana Kadwell: Yeah. 

Courtney Hopper: Twos and threes–

Dana Kadwell: Yeah.

Courtney Hopper: — Tend to work out well. But yeah, no, we definitely learned that the hard way.

Dana Kadwell: Yes.

Courtney Hopper: Well, we had someone who didn’t really know what their number was, but it was definitely clear that that person wanted to interject their vision into our direction. And it just created a lot of, like, butting heads. 

Dana Kadwell: Well, I think you made a really good point here though, is, you said it, she didn’t know what number she was. And I think that when you have an employee– And in our, in this industry that we’re in, who doesn’t really have a strong sense of self.

Courtney Hopper: Oh yeah. 

Dana Kadwell: And they adopt people they admire. Because that’s what it came down to, is she admired who we were. So, she wanted to be more like us and started taking on personalities that just weren’t really her.

Courtney Hopper: Right. 

Dana Kadwell: And it wasn’t authentic and true to who she was. And it’d end up, you know, blowing up massively, terribly. You know, I think that that is very accurate. Like, not knowing who you are is, and I think Morgan touched on that too.

Courtney Hopper: Yeah. 

Dana Kadwell: Like, where she finally said, “I’m not ashamed of this truth, that, like, I’ve been fired or demoted. I can own this because it is part of who I am. And it’s part of my story.”

Courtney Hopper: Yeah. I mean, I think for me, like, if I were to tell anybody, like, just getting started is to, like, own your shit. Like, I don’t have it all together, nor do I pretend to be, nor will I ever have it all together. Because that’s just like, literally, not who I am.

Dana Kadwell: That’s very true. 

Courtney Hopper: Like, I am a visionary. I have slight ADHD, like– 

Dana Kadwell: Slight? 

Courtney Hopper: I don’t know. 

Dana Kadwell: I don’t think it’s ADHD. I think ADD is better.

Courtney Hopper:  It’s not hyper. I’m not very hyper. But maybe it’s ADD. Right, like, I do have that. Like, it is, I want to get something started, but I do not want to finish it. Right? But I will, like, come in clutch when you need help on something, and I’ll troubleshoot the hell out of it and make sure that it happens.

Dana Kadwell: Right. 

Courtney Hopper: So like, that’s just literally who I am. And I think just, like having a little bit of a, like, real talk with yourself as to, like, here’s my strong suits, here’s my weaknesses. This is where I need support. And if you were going to go down that route of partnership, making sure you’re finding someone, who’s not like you. Because Lord knows there would be.

If there was like two of me, we wouldn’t be here. Right? And then if there was two of Dana, we also wouldn’t be here. So, we wouldn’t exist. Right? But I would be in bankruptcy court and Dana would be a teacher, you know? So, you definitely have to find somebody that, like, compliments who you are in having a little bit of an understanding of what makes you tick, I think is important.

Dana Kadwell: Yeah. Yeah. All I can think of when you’re talking about is–

Courtney Hopper: What are you thinking about? 

Dana Kadwell: –Is I swear there was a period of time and I, I mean, it’s, I say it not as much, but like where my favorite comment to Courtney is, “Don’t be an ass.” Like, just don’t be an ass. Like, there’s no need for it because Courtney’s superpower is dry sarcasm.

Courtney Hopper: Yeah. 

Dana Kadwell: And so, in the most awful moments when you’re like, you’re just trying to figure out like how to, how to be happy or you’re super upset or super mad, or you’re fiery red, like you’re raging, she just says some stupid, sarcastic comment. And you’re like, “Why?” Like, this is not appropriate. 

Courtney Hopper: I can’t help it. I’ve got to break the tension. I’m like, “You know what this situation needs? Every situation needs, it just needs levity.” But, back to reality.

I don’t know. It was, it was literally, the writing was on the wall for me. And this is just like how intrinsic it is for me, is our neighbor died when we lived on Kenmore Street. So, this is really, like little, like, we were like under 12. Right? 

Dana Kadwell: I was in Second. We had moved. We, I was in first grade, so I was like, seven. So you had to have been like nine or ten.

Courtney Hopper:  Nine or ten. Okay. So, I was like nine or ten. And Bob, his name was Bob, he died, and we had to go to his funeral. We knew Bob. And, but do you remember this? 

Dana Kadwell: I a hundred percent this story. 

Courtney Hopper: Okay. So yeah. Yeah. So we had to go to Bob’s funeral and this, I can’t remember the, I don’t remember Bob, probably because of this particular situation. His wife, obviously very upset, Bob really loved to, like, come and see Bob. 

Dana Kadwell: And it was open casket. 

Courtney Hopper: It was open casket. So she is, like, pulling us, like, dragging up to this casket. I did not want to see Bob. I did not want to look at him. And she pulls us up to Bob and she’s like, “Doesn’t he look real peaceful?” And I was like, “Bob’s looking a little green today.” 

Dana Kadwell: I mean, even as like a seven-year-old, I was like, “You don’t say that to someone who just lost their husband.”

Courtney Hopper: And my mother was, like, mortified. 

Dana Kadwell: Oh my God. 

Courtney Hopper: And it was horrible for sure. But she laughed. She did laugh. She laughed because I mean, she knew me like at that point, you know? But yeah, like to the core, that is who I am. And I think that, that, like that explains it right there. “Bob’s looking a little green today.” and whatever.

Dana Kadwell: I think it was just traumatic because of what you said, and I was like, so like, just so ashamed.

Courtney Hopper: No, I can see Bob with his, like, gum in his pocket. 

Dana Kadwell: Yes. Because he always had gum.

Courtney Hopper: Yes. It was traumatic. Yeah. 

Dana Kadwell: Oh, gracious. 

Courtney Hopper: So yeah.

Dana Kadwell: I think the other thing I really loved, our kind of business philosophy, is how she said, “Nothing is a problem unless it gets to the client.”

Courtney Hopper: Absolutely.

Dana Kadwell: Which is so true. 

Courtney Hopper: Which I feel like, like totally flows into like imposter syndrome. Because I feel like half the time, we are just making it up on the fly trying to make it look pretty and put a bow on it. And no one really knows, like, the wheels that were spinning. Like–

Dana Kadwell: Well, yeah, but I think, I really feel like it’s honestly a mistake a lot of people make is, and I know that we’ve been in many conversations, I’ve been on email threads where the, where like a planner is just divulging too much information. 

Courtney Hopper: Yes, absolutely. 

Dana Kadwell: They don’t need to know this backstory about how we got to where we got to. Yes, and Courtney is actually the worst with it when she gets nervous. I call it “Verbal diarrhea.”

Courtney Hopper: It’s true. 

Dana Kadwell: So, like in 2019, we were getting audited and I was like, “Courtney, this is going to be very stressful. 

Courtney Hopper: And it was very stressful. 

Dana Kadwell: And I was like, “But I can handle it because I, I can handle high stress situations well. And I can talk to them and I can make sure that like, everything is kosher.” And I did the accounting for the first part of our business.

Courtney Hopper: The very brief, first part of our business. 

Dana Kadwell: Yeah, well it was like five years. Before the Bradford.

Courtney Hopper: Before the Bradford, right. Yeah. Before we actually made money. 

Dana Kadwell: Yes, right. 

Courtney Hopper: That’s true. 

Dana Kadwell: That’s true. Any rate. So, he’s in there and he’d been there for like three days. And I made the whole office work from home that week and it was fine. Like, I was, we were working well together. We had a great relationship and I told Courtney, ” Under no circumstances, are you allowed to come into the office because you’re going to start saying something and it’s going to raise these red flags,” like, you know, “We need to fane some ignorance here.” Hopefully, they’re not listening to this podcast. 

Courtney Hopper: That’s right. 

Dana Kadwell: And she comes in one day and she just starts talking about some random something. And I was like, “Get out of the office.” 

Courtney Hopper: That name has not even been brought up, yet.

Dana Kadwell: I was like, “I do not know about that. Walk away.”

Courtney Hopper: “Go get some lunch.” 

Dana Kadwell: But it’s true. Whenever you’re nervous, you just start talking–

Courtney Hopper: It’s true.

Dana Kadwell: And it’s just, you don’t even, it’s like this out of body experience. I’m sure where you just start saying these things and you were like, “Just stop talking.” And I think that that is actually true for a lot of people who get nervous, and they want to overexplain.

It’s like, it’s like that episode where Phoebe is trying to teach Joey how to lie and she’s like, “You had it until you started talking about the raccoon,” or whatever. And it’s so true. There comes a point when you’re like, “Just, just stop talking. It’s, I got it handled.” You don’t need to say, “Oh my gosh, but it took five tries to get this ride and it’s barely hanging on by a thread. And we just, like, stapled that back together. And doesn’t it look beautiful?”

Like, they don’t need to know that. Like just–

Courtney Hopper: Kind of crashing down on them.

Dana Kadwell: Yeah. It’s just, you’re like it’s great. It was so easy. It took us ten minutes. 

Courtney Hopper: No problem. 

Dana Kadwell: No problem. 

Courtney Hopper: We did this in our sleep. So, like the last thing that just to kind of talk about, and I loved that Morgan said is, and I totally live by this philosophy, is that it doesn’t have to be perfect.

Like, things do not have to be perfect to get started. And I think getting back to, like, the kind of partnership thing is I think that’s so true. Like, I’m all about, like, “Let’s just jump in. Let’s do it. Let’s just get started. Problems are going to come. We’re going to cross those hurdles when they get here.”

And Dana’s like, “Have you thought about this? Do you have like a 12-point thing? Like, how are we going to really get from A to Z? I mean, I really think that you’re missing C to Q,” right? Like, “Have you considered these things?” And I’m like, “No, we’re just going to get started.” 

Dana Kadwell: Yes.

Courtney Hopper:  But I love that. Like, as like, as an entrepreneurial mindset. And even like, even when you think you have everything kind of fleshed out, you really don’t. 

Dana Kadwell: You don’t. And I think that’s, I mean, I don’t think as clearly about that necessarily; where it’s more of. when I think about the Bradford, I feel like we thought about it for a really long time. And there was a point where we just said, “Okay, we’re going to pull the trigger.” But it’s not like we just said, “Okay, we’re going to pull the trigger.”

And didn’t have, like, a site plan, didn’t get approved from the County, it didn’t have land, it didn’t have, didn’t have a certain amount of ducks in a row. And so, I think there’s like a, definitely balanced that. But, if I had known the path that we were going to take and the mistakes and the curvy road it would have done, I don’t know if I would have, I don’t know if I would’ve done it.

Because I always say, “We should have had more money. We should have prepared this better. We should just, we should have done this.” And the, the window would have been gone and it wouldn’t have been the same. And so, I feel like there’s like that, when you, when you feel confident enough to know, like, “Hey, I at least know this is going to be somewhat successful,” or “I have a good plan B.” Because we had an amazing plan B. 

Courtney Hopper: We did. 

Dana Kadwell:  So we felt confident. If it fails, we knew we weren’t going to lose everything. 

Courtney Hopper: You’re going to be my neighbor forever.

Dana Kadwell:  I know. And so we had, we had some things in place. We felt confident in that sense, but we really, we really didn’t have it together.

Courtney Hopper: Oh, we had no idea. 

Dana Kadwell: We had been, we just didn’t know. But we didn’t have like the perfect landscaping plan. Like, we didn’t know all the intricacies of other stuff. 

Courtney Hopper: We did until all those trees died. 

Dana Kadwell: Yeah. Until all of the trees died. That’s right. 

Courtney Hopper: That’s right. It was perfect at one point for one month. 

Dana Kadwell: Yes. So, I mean, I think that is true that I think there comes a point when you need to recognize that you have enough confidence in yourself and know that you can do this and that you’re going to do it well, and just do it. 

Courtney Hopper: Yeah, I think it’s, I kind of think about it like having children. Like, when you talk to people and they’re like, “We have all these ducks in a row, X, Y, Z, I’m going to wait till this point and have this house and this job and whatever, and then I’m going to have kids.”

It does not matter. Like, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter what you have altogether, what you think you know. You know nothing.

Dana Kadwell:  Right. 

Courtney Hopper: You’re going to have that kid that’s going to put you in turmoil. Like, it’s going to change everything. So at some point, you just have to do it.

Dana Kadwell: Right.

Courtney Hopper:  And, like, take the risk and deal with the consequences or, like, the joys, or the life lesson. 

Dana Kadwell: Or the joys.

Courtney Hopper:  Or the joys, right, that come along the way. Because it’s, it’s going to happen. 

Dana Kadwell:  We are recording this after, like, weeks of virtual schools. So, the joys are a little low. 

Courtney Hopper: The joys are low.

Dana Kadwell:  At the parents’ house.

Courtney Hopper: Yeah, that’s true. It gets a little bit like survival. It’s a little bit of mommy dearest. 

Dana Kadwell: Right?

Courtney Hopper: So, yeah. Totally awesome. 

Dana Kadwell: I love Morgan. I mean, if you, she is also someone who is great to chat with. Um, she gives so much insight and she’s such an encourager. It’s a hundred percent accurate when she says she tries to think of, “This person needs to hear it,” she, she just encourages you every single time you see her. So.

Courtney Hopper: All right. 

Dana Kadwell: To learn more about our hustles visit,, and Or follow us on Instagram @CandDEvents, @TheBradfordNC, and @HustleandGather. And if you like this show, be sure to subscribe and leave us a rating and a review. 

Courtney Hopper: This podcast is a production of Earfluence. I’m Courtney.

Dana Kadwell:  And I’m Dana. 

Courtney Hopper: And we’ll talk to you next time on Hustle and Gather.

Full Episode Transcript

Hustle and Gather is hosted by Courtney Hopper and Dana Kadwell, and is produced by Earfluence.  Courtney and Dana’s hustles include C&D Events, Hustle and Gather, and The Bradford Wedding Venue.

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