Maria: No, not in a way. It is completely different. It isn’t, it isn’t right. I get what you’re saying.

Alisa: And it kind of fits like as a woman there’s I don’t know. Is there a, is there a relationship between gender in leadership and then the impact, social impact? Have you seen more women leaders of social impact companies like proportionately? I’m curious. 

Maria: You know, I think as a woman, as a, as I can only speak for myself as a woman and then some of the women business owners that I know. I do think that there is a very deep desire to do business in a way that feels authentic. I mean, I see that amongst men as well, and it’s the men that I, you know, hang around and work with. So it’s not a universal statement, but maybe women are just less tolerant of playing the game so to speak. 

I mean, cause you know, you were talking about the amount of funding that goes to women. Well, one of the things like, so our company is officially women-owned, right? Which seems sort of funny. And these days back in the day, I could, I could legitimately say yes, I definitely, you know, run this business. Now, as chief impact officer, I’m still involved in developing our people and things like that.

But at any rate I digress, my point was going to be like, I wanted the other main reasons that I wanted to become a B Corp in the beginning was because at the time I thought it was inevitable that we would raise money and to scale and that we would take on investors and et cetera, et cetera. And a big piece of the B Corp the thing that you signed on to is that you write into your bylaws, that you are going to take into consideration all stakeholders, not just shareholders. And that was really important to me. I mean, it turns out that didn’t happen. Like we decided not to go that route. but that really was one of my motivations at the time, because that’s where I thought we were headed.

Alisa: That’s interesting. What did you learn in your career that led you to coaching? 

In my work, my goal is to give my clients the tools and the resources and some of the knowledge that I wish I had had, like when, when we discover this whole concept of an operating system, it was, it changed our world because we had been like most businesses do.

You’re just out there, I mean, we had some smart people doing really great work. We had some systems in place. But to really scale the organization and to really think about it and again, living a sustainable life as founders, I just, you know, we were on that rollercoaster. I, you know, I’ve talked to a lot of other plays about the solar coaster, right.

Because it’s where, you know, we get whipped all around with policy and stuff, but any, starting any business is a roller coaster, right? I mean, it just, it’s, it’s a ride, and it doesn’t have to be like, there are always the things that are outside of our control and much more. So today it feels like right is outside of our control.

And so being able to put the systems and the processes and the foundational pieces in place so that what you can influence is sustainable. And then that just sets us up even more to be able to face the challenges slash opportunities that come our way are inevitably going to come our way. 

Alisa: Right, yeah. And you used to be an EOS implementer and that’s how we started working together, and that toolkit and operating system that we’ve basically continued to use, even once you you’ve gone from that, has completely changed our business it’s night and day. And I don’t think we would be around now, actually. No, I know we wouldn’t be around now if it weren’t for that. 

Maria: Wow. 

We’ve had, like you said, at the roller coaster, there’ve been really great times, and really not so great times and having a coach, a guide to be there, to show you that that’s the low times, not the end. And then also to help with like, putting that kind of structure in place, the infrastructure of how a business runs and what you need, how you set goals, how you track your goals, how do you measure these, what matters in your company, seeing that growth? It’s it’s so cool. It’s so cool. I love it. 

Maria: I’m about to cry over here, actually. Yeah, I love it. I love that you are so enthusiastic about it still and I mean, that’s still the work that I do. I help organizations implement an operating system, their operating system. So you’ve got the unity operating system that you have, you know, that you’ve instilled. And it is something now that you will continue to add tools to that toolbox.

And as you grow, you’ll need different tools, but the fundamental principles, let’s create, let’s get everybody some real clarity and alignment around a vision about where we’re going to go. And then how we’re going to get there. How do you run a meeting? How do you set up a scorecard?

I mean, these are like, it’s, it’s basic, basic principles that most of us know, or at least we’ve heard we’re supposed to do, but for whatever reason, like. It can feel overwhelming. At least it did for us. I mean, we had scorecards, oh gosh, we had balanced scorecards. We had all kinds of systems that we have put in place, but nothing worked for us until we really looked at the business holistically and you know, 360 Rocks.

Now I’m really excited about the way we’re thinking about this. It starts with purpose, right? Because why get out of bed in the morning and do a thing, right? You got to start with your purpose and then it’s about your people, right? And getting people who, and you’ve heard this a thousand times, Alisa, people who, who, you know what I’m going to say, right, who share your core values are fired up about where you’re looking to go. And then, uh, after people comes a playbook, you gotta have a shared playbook. This is how we do our basic things. And then you have to focus on the performance against that. And then the last one is the one I’m most excited about.

Prosperity. Oh, yes. Like, right. So it’s about, and with my clients. I really want to think about, because I was sort of taught, you know, we’re led to believe that profits are the, be all end all and profit you know, no money, no mission. Bart Houlihan said that to me, uh, at one point when SEM was in a not so happy place.

Alisa: You’ve said it to me.

Yeah. I want to say it to anyone who’ll listen, because talk about the lessons that you learned. Right? So that profitability piece, and like being able to sustain a profitable organization is really important, but it’s not all like, what does prosperity look like for you as a founder? Right? Because it’s more than just money.

Believe me. I know a lot of founders who’ve made a lot of money who do not feel prosperous. So, and then what does prosperity look like for your people, for your community, for all those things. And then in the middle of our model, currently its drawn as a heart and it’s got impact in the middle. I don’t know if that’s going to fly in the business world, but,

Alisa: Well, one of your core values is what? Lead with love? 

Maria: Yeah. That’s, what’s on my business card. 

Alisa: So I think that the heart being right there in the middle makes the most sense. I, as someone who knows you and knows the way that you operate, that is a very relevant. I have started at the end of our, we just had a quarterly meeting last week, and at the end of it, I’m tempted to just tell my entire team. I love you. Thank you. I love you. 

Maria: Why don’t you?

Alisa: Because it feels weird.

Maria: I know it does, doesn’t it? I tell people I love them all up the time. I’m sure I’ve said to you, because I do. And you know what? 

Alisa: I do too.

Maria: And that’s why I put it on the front of my business card because we do, and yet we don’t say it and we don’t always act from that place. I mean, I didn’t, we had, uh, we had a town hall meeting for Southern energy management last week. I think there were a hundred and some people on there and at the end I was like, I love you all. I mean, I’m sure some of these people are like I’ve never met this lady before. What in the world is this? But you know what? Maybe even, even if that’s the response, it’s like, huh, that was different. Something different just happened here?

And I did have a male colleague of mine. So I actually did this at a conference two years ago. It was the last conference that I went to where we were in person and I was giving a talk about something or another. And at the end, I said, I love you guys. And you know, or love you people or whatever I said, and I made a comment, you know, flip comment about it. And I tell our people that and blah, blah, blah. 

And this guy actually, he runs a company. I think he’s got five or 600 people now. He actually called me and he was like, Maria, I just want you to know that at our last company meeting, I told him I loved him. I was like, wow, that’s awesome. 

Alisa: I kind of wonder what people think on the receiving it, like, do they think if that’s the first time they hear that, do they think, oh, are you dying? Are you leaving us? Like, why are you telling us that? 

Maria: Well, we’re all dying right, in some ways, and we’re all living. And I think there’s room for more love and the business world. And I think that, you know, and I’ve been told, you know, I tried to make love one of our core values, like back in 2009 or 10, uh, when SEM, when we were growing really rapidly and we were bringing in a lot of people and even then even without like calling it or knowing it was an operating system, I knew that like core values were at the very foundation of like, you got to have those with everybody on your team.

And I actually had, you know, four, I think I had a team like four or five people who were going through the, you know, helping me to develop these. And they were like, Marie, you can’t do that.

Alisa: Why? 

Maria: Because they said it would make people uncomfortable and people will think that you’re weird. And Alisa, I think about that. 

Alisa: We’ve gotta embrace the weird. 

Maria: I think about this sometimes. And then I remember I was like speaking to a great one time and I was so proud that I had listened to them. And I said, you know, they were, you know, I really, I thought that was really good that we were collaborating and they had their point of view.

So it’s a balance, right? Because part of me is like, man, what would have happened? What might’ve been different if I had insisted that no, love is part of this culture. 

Alisa: So yeah, that’s interesting. When I founded Unity, I’d come from a non-profit. And non-profits talk about mission, values and purpose and all of those things. And so I had no business background. I knew what I wanted my business to generally look like. I knew what it didn’t want it to be. Right. And it’s kind of like parenting, you know, like, you know where I don’t want it to be. And then you’re like, okay, well I guess I’ll figure it out. 

And I had two kids by the time I started this company. So I was like, well, if I can make humans, I can make a business, right? And so I thought about, I started with those values too. They were very complicated. And I think I was probably two years into the business about when I met you. And I remember the first time we talked, I felt like you turned on a light.

I felt like you walked into the room. I had a flashlight, in the dark and I’m like, okay, well then. I’m finding my way. And then you walk in and you’re like, well, this is how you do it. And it was like, oh, you just turned on the light switch. 

Maria: We don’t know what we don’t know. 

Alisa: Yeah, and it’s still finding more rooms that I didn’t know existed in this house that I’m trying to build.

Maria: You’re going to call it. You’re going to be making additions. You’re put on new floors. You’re going to be like, you know, re vamping, you know, remodeling this place for as long as you are in this business. It’s exciting, thats the fun of it. 

Alisa: Yeah. It’s fun. It is fun. So a lot of times we only get to see the end results and not all of the effort that it takes to to the end result. And I am incredibly nosy, and so I love to ask and pry a little to get the behind the scenes look from the inside at impact. And so with all of your time in the impact world, what are some things that you’ve learned that you didn’t expect to learn? Or what are some surprises that have happened? 

Maria: So obviously I have learned a lot over the years and it’s evolved a lot over the years, cause I remember the first impact assessment that we took. I’m sure it wasn’t actually with pen and paper, but like, in my mind, that’s what it feels like it was. And I got on a phone call with Hardy, who I believe is still with B lab and he like led, you know, we went through the questions together and he asked me some questions and, and now of course it’s very, you know, it’s all online.

There’s like this whole process. And so I think that I didn’t appreciate in the beginning, how complex really talking about sustainability can get. Like, for me, there’s some pretty basic principles, but then when you try to measure those things. So, this is my bias because of what I do for a living.

And like part of putting an operating system in place is like, just like on your phone, it’s like the thing that you do, and then you don’t have to think about it anymore. You’re making it, you’re simplifying it. So to me, I would love, and this is why I love what impact is doing, right. Let’s make this simpler for people.

Like I didn’t realize how off-putting it is to really, honestly, in my experience, in the business world, most entrepreneurs, at least to talk about like, what’s the impact that you’re having. Like, I didn’t realize that people, it’s not that people don’t care. Right. And it’s not that people don’t want to make a difference, but that they don’t see how to do it in a way that isn’t going to destroy their business. Like, it’s, it’s a very much for a lot of people really do continue to see it as an either or right.

And I remember early on, you know, one of my entrepreneurial friends talking with this person and I was like, well, you know, would you consider, you know, doing this? And it happened to be a woman. And she said, Maria, one bottom line is hard enough. 

Alisa: Really? 

Maria: Yeah. And I was like, and it’s true. Right. It’s true. And so getting it to a point where it’s not an either or where it’s an, and, and it’s something that it’s adding and I do believe that now right. More investors are talking about zooming, you got BlackRock, saying you know that this is an imperative that changes the conversation. 

It’s so funny, you know, you asked about the origin story of us becoming a B Corp. And one of the ways that I pitched my team, and this was 2009, I was like, Hey, You know guys, cause it was guys in the room. I was like, because in 10 years, this is just going to be how businesses get done. Do you want it?

You know, you want to get on board now or do you want to have to a play catch up? And they were like, I don’t know why, somehow they believe me, but it’s been, you know, now more than 10 years and I’m delighted at the progress that we’ve made and also a little dismayed that there hasn’t been more. Yeah, 

Alisa: So let’s talk community impact. What are some of the ways that SEM has made an impact on the community here locally and more broadly? 

Maria: I think SEM’s, you know, I actually got a letter from a former team member, Bob and I got a letter two weeks ago. I think it was in the solar industry and this person had. Uh, going on, nothing has been at a couple of different companies and his company just got sold. The company he’s working for currently just got sold and he got, you know, a little bit of money from it.

He said it wasn’t enough to retire, but then it definitely was very financially impactful and getting that letter from him, and he basically said, you know what you guys started has enabled so many people to go out and do this work. And I’m telling you saying, using his words not mine. He had no doubt that the solar industry in North Carolina and the Southeast would not be where it is today without the work that our team has done. And he was talking about how every day he talks with people who came out of SEM, you know, and, and so SEM, you know, and even as recently, as a month ago, one of our team members left and decided to start his own company.

And it’s like, you know, that’s not the plan we want for everybody obviously. But you know, we have some team members, our longest team members been with us for 18 years and we’ve got, I don’t know, 15 or 16 people who’ve been there longer than 10 years. And we’ve watched them grow up and you know, buy homes and raise families. And, you know, one of our team members, I mean, I remember when his first child was born, this kid’s like going to be going to college soon. 

I like to think that the effect of working in an organization like ours, while not perfect, really does, try to create an inclusive, like not completely democratic, but, uh, democratized at least environment for people. I like to think that that spills out into the community and that they take that wherever they go. I hope. 

Alisa: I hope so too. I’m like, I’m thinking about, I, speaking of getting weepy, I’m sitting here thinking about like, wow, like in 15 years, how many lives will Unity have touched? 

Maria: Yeah. I hope you’re measuring that now. Well well, because that’s one of the things, right. And you’ve got unit of impact and that’s one of the, you know, the impact is at the heart of what I’m looking to do because measuring that, and it’s not just through B Corp certification.

Right, but measuring that along the way really matters. For so many years we’ve been trying to measure what’s what feels unmeasurable. Start somewhere. 

Alisa: I remember what you said about what you learned about how complex it can be. That makes me think about, so a year and a half ago I co-founded Unit of Impact with, along with two other B Corps Round Peg in Maryland, and Oliver Russell in Idaho and then Unity in North Carolina and between the three of us, we’re building this platform for companies to be able to measure and report on their impacts.

And just over the past year and a half doing, learning about this, I feel like I’ve barely scratched the surface and here we are supposed to be building a tool for, for companies. And even after all of this research and trying to get some kind of organized system for people to do this, it’s like, wow, this is really hard.

No wonder it hasn’t been done yet. Right. So it’s exciting that we’re, we’re making that happen now. And we’ve got an awesome advisory board that you’re on. 

Maria: So well, I’m excited for that product. And, and, you know, I think, I don’t know if it was on that call. Or maybe any of, some of the other calls I’ve been on recently, but I, things that are really meaningful and important often, not always, but often take longer than we think they are going to take.

And that’s why, you know, many people give up. And so it really takes a lot of tenacity and it takes a lot of determination to see a thing through. And knowing, you know, what see-through and whatnot to see. See-through when you’re an entrepreneur, that’s a big part, that’s a big part of crystallizing a vision because knowing what to say no to is just as important many, many times is what we say yes to.

Alisa: I’ve been trying to learn that from you. It’s a lesson that you’ve been teaching me that has not gotten through my thick skull. Well, it’s getting there making its way in. 

Maria: I have witnessed, as I am delighted to be here as a guest on your podcast that you definitely have boundless energy for new things, which, you know, it’s exciting. Right. And there’s no reason that we can’t, shouldn’t be able to do those things with the proper systems in place. Right. That’s what enables us to be able to do more than we otherwise would be able to.

Alisa: Yeah, that’s true. I was just thinking about like, oh man, 

Maria: you’re so overcommitted, i’m sure. 

Alisa: I’m way overcommitted, but 

Maria: you know, that’s a commitment to yourself. I’m learning. 

Alisa: Yes. I’m doing some I’m in therapy. 

Maria: Good. Me too. 

Alisa:  And it’s amazing, yes. And I’m working through some workbooks. 

Alisa: I’m trying to learn self-compassion and it’s incredible how hard that is. 

Maria: It is, you know, Kristin Neff has an app. There’s an app for that to have you come across Kristin Neff. 

Alisa: I think her name sounds familiar. What’s that? 

Maria: So she’s like the self-compassion like she’s the, and I think her latest what was called radical self-compassion and there literally is an app that I downloaded, but don’t seem to use very often because it is something I agree.

I think for many of us, it is the work of right now. And particularly if you’re a high achieving person and you’re used to being somewhat and who gets shit done, it’s one of the ironies you asked me earlier about things I learn, the more shit you get done, the more people want you to do shit. Right.

And the more opportunities you get and it’s like, wow. And developing that discipline of, and again, that’s why, you know, now I’ll point out and I know we’ve had this conversation. An operating system, like where you have a very clear vision and clear, very clear goals and ways to be accountable and measure, your life needs an operating system also.

And just, you know, it doesn’t have to be that, you know, regimen, but having a family meeting, you know, once a week or once every couple of weeks, um, where you sit down and you talk about whatever, you know, obstacles are in people’s way, same principles actually apply quite well. All these things like the, the ultimate goal is to help people live better lives from my perspective. Yeah, and to create more love in the world and it starts with us. 

Alisa: It’s beautiful, and it’s true. 

Maria: Well, I mean, and when I say like, I’ve tried to become more aware recently of the way, you know, my own self-talk. And, you know, that’s one of the things that Kristin Neff talks about is like, I think maybe Brene Brown and you know, it’s not earth shattering, but it’s like, you need to talk to yourself in ways you wouldn’t talk to her friend that way.

Yeah. But wow. When I start to listen to like some of the things I say, I’m like, shit, I would never speak to anybody else that way. And so then I have to give myself compassion for that. Oh, which is really the evolution for me the last maybe six months or so is being okay with that inner critic and being like, oh, Bless your heart.

You’re, you want me to be better. Yeah. You know, I don’t have to shut you down. Yeah. I don’t have to, you don’t have to shut it down. That’s because then it becomes you against yourself, right? 

Alisa: Yeah. The book that I’m reading right now that is just amazingly helpful, is called The Child Inside. It’s mind blowing for me, but yeah. It’s about your inner, inner shadow child, which is your inner hurt child. And then you’ve got an inner sun child and that’s your inner, like joyful three-year-old or whatever, and then your inner adult. And then, there’s a bunch of other people in there, but

Maria: it sounds like internal family systems is that, 

Alisa: I don’t know if it’s related to that.

Maria: It sounds like very similar concepts, which, you know, uh, Tim Ferris had Dick Schwartz, I think, richard Swartz on his podcast is where I first learned about it. It’s fascinating. 

Alisa: It is. And it’s like, when we made me think about, when you’re talking about everybody says, like, you should never talk to yourself the way that you wouldn’t talk to someone else, but it’s, so now that I’m reading this, it’s like, I would never speak to my inner child that way, you know, like, or my own children, the way that sometimes I speak to myself and yeah, who is that coming from? A part of my brain. Yeah. What part of my personality and like, yeah. And thats self-compassion that you have to have, and that I’m working on developing is all about love. Bringing it all back to love. 

Maria: And getting really curious, right. As opposed to judgmental. Huh? You really think that where where’s that coming from? you know, one of the other things that I got trained in this past year was called heart math. And it’s the principles are so simple, but it’s like, okay, you got to solve a problem.

You got to prepare for a meeting. You got to take some time and breathe in through your heart space. And like, you know, there’s lots of mindfulness techniques, but the stuff is simple. It doesn’t have to be so hard. 

Alisa: It’s simple, but it is hard. It’s simple and hard. 

Maria: Simple, not easy. Right?

Alisa: Yeah, All right. So my final question is what person or company doing good has had the biggest impact on you? 

Maria: I would have to say B Lab because they were, you know, in Bart Houlihan specifically. I mean, I love Jay and Andrew and, you know, all three of the founders and, but I would say Bart Houlahan, you know, at a time when SEM, I didn’t know if I see him was going to make it or not.

Bart came by and just happened to be in town to see me and that was when he delivered the fame and I was distraught, because I felt I’d let so many people down and we were having to lay people off, you know, which for me, right. It’s like, it’s the worst thing. And I recognize now that it happens.

Right. But in part shared some personal stories with me, that was when he said those words, Maria, no money, no mission. And I got it. Like at that moment I was like, okay, we still have to, like, we have to focus on profitability, and. And I really, it sounds silly, but I really don’t think I totally got it.

I think before that time I had had this concept that, oh, you know, you do what you love and the money will follow. Well, kinda, if you do a whole lot of other things right along the way, right. Yeah. You know, operate with certain principles and basic, and not so basic, right. Putting things into place. So I, I give that honor to Bart and the rest of the group there, but for that, for that moment specifically. 

Alisa: Well, thank you again for joining me, Maria. If people want to learn more about you and what you’re doing now, how can they connect with you? 

Maria: Oh my gosh. They can find me on LinkedIn, of course. And they can check out my website, built by Unity. Although I will say we’re going to be, we’re still in the process of updating all of the words, not the beautiful graphics that you guys did.

Uh, but at 360rocks.us. And I’m easy to find maria@mariakingery.com. I mean, yeah. That’s my email address. Yeah. 

Alisa Herr [PODCAST OUTRO]: Thank you so much to Johnny Hackett Jr, for coming on the Insight impact podcast. For more information on how everything is going a Black Dollar, visit the blackdollarcorp.us. And thank you for listening to Inside Impact. If you like the show, we’d love it. If you would give us a rating and review on whatever podcast app you’re using right now. For all of you making an impact in your communities, let’s hear about it. Send us an email to podcast@unitywebagency.com, and we’ll be sure to mention what you’re doing on the show or even have you on as a guest. This podcast was edited and produced by Earfluence. I’m Alisa Herr, and we’ll see you again soon on Inside Impact.