Last week, Courtney and Dana talked with another set of sister entrepreneurs—Jackie and Cassie Collier. This week, hear how Courtney and Dana grew to have different strengths and approaches to business, despite being raised together. Plus, find out what caused the sisters’ biggest fight ever and how they avoid fighting now.
Courtney Hopper: we were talking about celebrities and Liam, my eight-year-old asked me, he said, are you a celebrity? Asked me that, and I was like, no, he’s like, I feel like you’re kind of famous.
Welcome to Hustle and Gather, a podcast about inspiring the everyday entrepreneur to take the leap. I’m Courtney
Dana Kadwell: And I’m Dana
Courtney: and we’re two sisters who have started multiple businesses together, and yes, it’s as messy as you think. We know that starting a business isn’t easy.
Dana: I mean, we’ve done it four times. And on this show, we talk about the ups and downs of the hustle and the reward at the end of the journey.
Courtney: And we love helping small businesses succeed, whether that is through our venue consulting, speaking, team training, we love to motivate others to take those big leaps.
Dana: Or you can just use our misadventures to normalize the crazy that is being an entrepreneur, because every entrepreneur makes mistakes.
Courtney: And we like to call those unsuccessful attempts around here.
Dana: And we know it’s just part of the process. And today we’re talking, just the two of us, about last week’s episode with sisters, Jackie and Cassie Collier, founders of the Bundle game, a unique personalized board game brand that is all about you. At Bundle, our mission is to bring people together for life’s most celebrated moments.
They create one of the kind custom board games encompass your favorite memory stories and inside jokes.
Courtney: All right. Let’s get started.
Dana: I always love interviewing sisters. It’s so fun. It helps me feel a little bit more like validated. Yeah, I know. And I’m not a crazy person.
Courtney: And also it’s like, so refreshing and reassuring like to see other people doing it.
Dana: I know. It’s very different having a conversation with sister partners and then just partners in general. Because the partners in general, like kind of dance around like the emotions of the other person where you’re just like, no, you’re being a fucking asshole. That’s the answer.
Courtney: I don’t know. Did you get the impression that that’s how Jackie and Cassie speak to each other?
Dana:, I’m sure they’re pretty real with each other. I would assume so. They’re sisters, but I loved so, I think it was really neat, their journeys, or they’re very similar to us. One. They have a younger brother, like we do.
I know, just crazy. I love that they right off the gate, said they chose to share a room, which has always been our story. I know, I feel like they are very similar. So I would be curious, what do you think our biggest fight has ever been as kids? I mean, pre-business owner.
Courtney: It was over the sweater vest. yeah, it was the sweater vest fight. Yes. That was a big, or was the time you called me a bitch on the way to baseball practice
Dana: mm either one. Yeah, those are bigger ones. You were being annoying.
Courtney: I was trying to make sure you got there safely and weren’t abducted.
Dana: well, still.
Courtney: I was so offended.
Dana: Yeah. I was so offended over the stupid sweater vest.
Courtney: I know. Well, you, what is your take on the sweater vest story?
Dana: My take is, is that there are very few things. So we were very different sizes and Courtney’s always been smaller than me, for the most part.
We had just moved to North Carolina.
We had just been North Carolina, so we knew nobody. And the, we always shared shirts. It was the only thing we really could share. We couldn’t share shoes. My feet were like two sizes bigger than hers. We couldn’t wear pants. Cuz all of her pants were like way too shorts. And she was like a good two size was smaller. That mean like she was like a two and I was like a six, but we could always wear shirts, always.
We did have a communal closet. And there was no rules for it. It didn’t matter if you just bought it and you hadn’t worn it first. It didn’t matter like if you worn it a million times, it did. You did have to ask. Yeah, you did have to ask. But the answer was always yes.
And can’t remember it was your sweater vest wasn’t it?
It was my sweater.
And I wanted to wear it to school the next day. I had this perfect outfit planned and she said, no, because she hadn’t worn it yet, but she wasn’t gonna wear it the next day. Yeah, it wasn’t, she wasn’t gonna wear it.
She was gonna wear something completely different. So it wasn’t like, oh, I wanna wear this and I got mad,
Courtney: You got mad. We shared a room. We were in this apartment. We were in a two-bedroom apartment, right, where our house was being built. Yes, and we shared a room and she was so angry. she said, I can’t even sleep in the same room with you.
Yeah. Cause I was so mad.
She was so mad and I was like, she’s like, I’m gonna leave. I’m gonna leave this room. And I was like, okay, yeah, leave the room. And she did, she took her pillow in her blanket. She made a pallet outside our door cuz our brother was sleeping on the couch.
Dana: Yeah. In the living room. Like that was, I think I slept, I think I slept by the front door of the apartment, next to the couch. Cause I was so angry. You’re so angry. It was mad for days about that. but two, like, it was just like, it was one, everyone s emotions were high. We had just moved and I thought my dad had ruined my life cause I was in eighth grade and he made move in the middle of the year.
Wasn’t in the beginning of the year and whatever, but what was so frustrating is the fact that clothes were really hard for me to find, like, it was really hard for me to find anything that fit me, especially pants. My parents only bought me one pair of jeans a year, one pair of pants a year. And it was from Eddie Bauer.
because they were $80. And so I had to take very good care of my clothes, we would go shopping and I think I hate, I hated shopping for a long time. And corny would have like all this stuff that always fitter and it was perfect. And we had that maroon skirt that was beat. Remember that beat mercy? I do. So I loved that skirt and I, it just, I think you found it first and, and is fit me. Cause it was like a stretchy skirt, whatever.
Yeah. But it was always that way. And so it was like super frustrating when I found something that actually fit me cuz it wasn’t that I could wear all your clothes, but you could wear all of my clothes. It’s true. And then you said, no, it just, you know, brought back all of the, my life is so unfair. This sucks.
Courtney: terrible. I remember that was one of our biggest sister fights. I just remember you trying to punish me by not sleeping in your bed.
Dana: I still wanna be around. I wasn’t punishing you. I just was trying to make a point that I didn’t even wanna be around you. Like you’re so unbearable right now.
Courtney: Yeah. I can’t even remember what mom and dad did though.
Dana: Mom made us make up. She’s like, you need to get, you guys see the makeup. And it was days. I mean, it was like two, three days later. I don’t even know how it ended. I don’t even think I wore the sweater vest; I think to wear it after that, it’s like, I probably
Courtney: was like, fine.
You can wear it. And you’re like, I’m now wearing the vest. I could imagine being just like that. I’m sure there’s not very many sisters that can count their arguments on one hand.
I loved how, when they first started their and just kind of moved, moving from sister thing to sister thing, when they first started their business, they were very open about like the roles. Cause I think it is super messy.
and it might be that way for many partnerships and might not just extend to sister partnerships, but I think it’s hard to say like, who’s going to do what in a business. And I think for us, it was kinda like we’re both going to do this business and then it became like very hard to both do the business, cuz like we both don’t think the same way.
We both don’t act the same way. We both have different strengths and we would handle things differently. And then at some point your business gets so big that it doesn’t even make sense anymore.
Dana: Yeah. I just think it’s the one part we’re really terrible at. I think we’re actually really terrible at it.
I agree with that. Like it’s not our strong suit at all. And, and I think even too, like sometimes I think about like, okay, like you have this is your job. Your bucket, here’s my bucket or whatever we still and I’ve. And I felt this actually with our episode with Brandy, how she Brandy Gaar, how she was saying she still had a finger in almost every single thing.
And I feel that, like, I still have a finger almost in every single thing you do where you still have a finger in almost everything that I do. And I personally feel like it’s hard. It, it breeds some resentment. Sometimes it breeds complacency. a lot of times for us, cuz I don’t, I feel like I can’t make decisions.
Like we’re trying to, we were putting together this presentation and you were busy doing something and I was getting started on it and I couldn’t get started on it. Cause I needed approval for what template we were using. Like why the fuck does that matter? Like just pick a template. Like I know you don’t really care.
I don’t really care.
Right. But I felt like, like paralyzed by making that choice because you know, we’ve always made them together. You’ve always approved the template or whatever, you know what I mean? And it’s same thing. Like, even though finances are squarely in your category and I not saying you should like, I know I’m in ’em and we talk about them briefly, but there’s still always this like, are you okay with this?
Are you okay that we do this? are you blah, blah, whatever, like, so I feel like that that’s where the, yeah, that’s where it gets hard. And I’m not saying I wanna be outta finances fully.
I’m not saying that at all. I’m just saying there’s like different things that like where you actually don’t let the person be a hundred percent of it. Which is where I feel like when you separate it into that CEO and COO side of things. There’s, there’re two very different roles and you have those, you know, coming of minds together or those weekly, monthly, quarterly meetings where you’re kind of like debriefing all the things, but at the end of the day, like the buck stops with that person.
Yeah. Like I’m not a, I’m not in this meeting asking for your permission to do this. I’m just saying, this is what happened. This is what I did. This is how I solved it. You know? And I think that’s hard for us. I think we both have a. A problem letting go of control,
Courtney: right? Like we both want control.
We both want control.
Well, I mean, I could say like for the record and I can put this in writing that I don’t care about the template and you have full, full autonomy in choosing whatever template it is that we’re gonna do. I think what it is for me, I would be like, I want your approval because I don’t wanna get 12 steps down the road and you’d be like, I hate that. I’d be like so angry about like, Right work that I’ve done.
Dana: No, because we’ve been there before. We have been there before. And I think that that’s where at the end of the day, when you get to the point of this is your job role. Like, it doesn’t matter if I don’t like it.
Right, because it’s what it is. Because that was your job to do. And I trusted you to do that. And unless it’s something that’s gonna co be a liability, right or something that’s gonna cost us a ton of money that I don’t agree with. Those are the only two times you can say, Nope, I, I don’t care if you 10 steps into this, I don’t agree with this. You know, but everything else doesn’t matter.
Courtney: I feel a little bit of like division of duties in the one aspect of our newest venture with Anthem house like, I feel like. Way more into the back and forth with Amanda on that and whatnot and how we’re going forward with his clients and whatnot. So I do feel that way.
Dana: Well, yeah, cause that, that’s not my wheelhouse. Selling, it’s not my wheelhouse., finding like showing value for that. That’s not something I’m good at.
Courtney: But I totally agree. I mean, I, I agree that that’s definitely a, not a strong suit, but I think that there’s definitely been some headway in that direction of like,, candid conversations of literally, this is how my brain works and this is how your brain works.
And the reason that we work together so well, or our as far along as our is because our brains work differently. do you know? But then like not just resenting the way that your brain works. Cause I mean, I definitely feel that. Sometimes, like I do, like, I feel like I wish my brain worked differently, but it does not, you know, or I know you feel that way. Like I wish my brain worked differently.
Dana: I just think it gets so messy; I think with the messy part. And I think this is probably true for any partnership, but I think going back to what you said in the podcast about how you like you make dis you sometimes make the wrong business decision because you’re making the decision based on caring for your sister.
And I think that’s what makes things so messy and hard is there’s an emotional element to it. And there’s a lot of like, oh, I understand where they are. I understand where they are. Like I get it. I get it. And you can’t, you, you can’t take off your sister hat put on your business hat. Like even though you say you owe, this is a business decision at the end of the day, it’s not right.
Because you know how it’s gonna negatively impact a family or whatever. And it kind of goes back to like, and I think, I think that’s, what’s super hard. And I think when you and I that’s what makes the sister relationship really strong and I think it’s what makes the times of, the pits, like super hard to get over.
Yeah. Because it just, it does cuz I think it does breed resentment when you’re like, well, I made this decision that was best for you. And I grow for the business and now we’re here and I hate you for it. Could literally resent you for it. That we made this choice. And because I knew it was best for you, but I knew at the end of the day I knew it wasn’t what’s best for collectively everybody.
Right. You know?
Courtney: Yeah. I could see.
Dana: I’m not saying you specifically, I’m saying there’s been lots of instances, like in general where we’ve done it to each other.
Courtney: Right. But I just, I don’t think it’s avoidable.
Dana: You know what I mean? No, it’s not avoidable. I, but I, I think it goes back to what I said before about having empathy and compassion is like understanding and to have more compassion of, of where that it’s not an easy black, white answer.
Yeah. Necessarily, you know? No, I totally
Courtney: think that. I love that revelation that you had though, in your therapy. I feel that deeply. Yeah, because you’re just, you are, I think you’re like, I can feel where you’re at. I acknowledge it, but move on. We’re not living there.
Dana: yeah. Cuz I, because that’s not how I am.
I know I don’t, I don’t live. I don’t, I think
Courtney: I’m like the opposite. I’m like, oh wait, you’re feeling bad. But then I’m like super compassionate. but I can’t tell when sometimes when someone’s, I can’t sometimes pick up what someone’s putting down. No, you, you know what I mean?
I also, I loved her story in general about, and I think too, and I think this goes back to sisters, like, I think you could do so much more like as sisters, like the goofiest craziest biggest boldest steps. Mm. Could you feel empowered by your security blanket? but I love her story about how she met Sarah Blakely.
and her sister was like, hey, we should dress up as Sarah and Jessie,
Dana: but I think it’s honestly like, and I think what makes them great business owners in general is that they didn’t walk into that blindly. Like they knew that person well, like they knew that it would go over well. And whereas I feel like a lot of people, like probably for me, if I didn’t know them, but I had this opportunity, I would’ve just been, like you said, absolutely not.
Like we are gonna be in their professional. We need to be professional cause were a serious business. And it probably would’ve fallen flat, but it’s goes back to like understanding. Who your audience is. And, and taking those risky moves because you, and feeling confident in it because you understand who they are, you know,
Courtney: but I also feel like it goes back to my theory on luck. You know what I’m saying? Like the lack of happenstance of luck, it’s just being ready. Yes. At the right opportunity. Right. Is what makes your luck
Dana: because they had the game, this, they had the game prepared and ready. Cause it was like they had manifested what they wanted.
Courtney: Yeah. Which I. What a great word, Dana. They did manifest it and the universe provided it for them. so they made this game not knowing when they’d have the opportunity. But it was there and ready and universe answered them. Yep. But yeah, I definitely, I love that. I love that., fortune favors the bold type move they had there. Yeah. So have you ever felt in our business that there was like a big, bold, bold thing? And then you’re like,
Dana: I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t think that I can’t think of anything that was like super bold. Other than like opening the venue, but I don’t even know if that was bold.
Courtney: It felt bold at the time. No, I think I, I think to me, like the boldest thing that we’ve done recently is with Anthem house. Is calling up Amanda and saying, we’re gonna give you a salary. We believe in this product. we believe in you so much that we’re gonna take this hit because we know that you’re gonna be able to grow it and we’re gonna be able to move it.
Amanda looked at me the other day, cuz I was talking about tenting the terrace for this client. She’s like, I thought we didn’t do that. I was like, we don’t do that. We don’t do that for, for people. I was like, we won’t have any pictures of this, but I really think that this might be a good option for this Anthem house client.
That’s a big client, the Bradford, blah, blah, blah. And, she so looked at me and she was like, I believe that you can do anything that you sets your mind to. She’s like, I think that if you think you can do it, it’s going to be done. I think you and Dana, you know, so I think there are people from the outside that think that we do make very bold moves and bold statements and then fulfill those
Dana: No, I mean, I think, I think the thing that we’re the, the boldest we, our is with our time. I mean, I think we just take on a lot of things. I think we trust people. We trust our employees probably more than most people trust their employees. And we’re bold with like the assumption that we have a great product and we have a great onboard and we have a great training that people will be fine.
Yeah. And we, we will be okay. And I think that there’s, I think the boldness of building our team is probably the, to me, the biggest thing. And we did it early on. Like it wasn’t yeah. You know, we recognize that we needed the time back for it. You know, but I Don. I love that I’m not like a super silly person. So I think I would probably have the hardest time with that in general
Courtney: with the dressing up, like people or,
Dana: yeah, just being like bold, like silly, I guess, silly, bold. Oh, like being like, you’re not like an impractical person. I’m not impractical person, right? Yeah.
I love the conversation we had and we were talking about kinda like their oh, shit moments. And when you look at something and you recognize you’re mad about it, and you wanna blame, like blame the manufacturer. I can’t believe they did this. They blah, blah, whatever.
And then like, you kind of get past that blame game and you realize, ugh, like ultimately it was my fault. Like if I had just sent this email, if I had just clarified, this is what I wanted. I wouldn’t, this wouldn’t have happened. and I was like, really, really, really related that to that a lot. Like just in life in general, like yeah.
Courtney: Like where to start on those types of stories.
Dana: Yes. Where you’re just like, oh, I’m so angry. This isn’t my fault. But then you’re like, well, I don’t know. I could have done better.
Courtney: Yeah. There’s so many things in my life that I feel just like that, like what?
Dana: Let’s give one good one.
Courtney: I don’t know. I could give you one that I don’t feel like that, I guess. I don’t know. Okay. I don’t know anything like. When I am like in super stress, I get super procrastinating. And then I literally am like having to do five days’ worth of work in one day or, catch up on something and it pisses me off. Or every time I have to pay a damn late fee, cause I haven’t paid something like, like on my car title or whatever, like it pisses me off cuz it’s not like it’s literally just about like procrastinating and not doing it.
Not having, making the time to adjust it. It was Def I felt that way with a client before where I knew that I wasn’t communicating enough for them. And it was kind of like a H a game of like, hurry up and wait, like getting them to the point where they needed to be at before they confronted the fact that I hadn’t been communicating with them.
Right. Cause I knew that I wasn’t you know, so I’ve had that happen to me before.. I mean like you name it. Mm it’s. Sometimes it’s about like getting out of yourself and making yourself do something that you don’t wanna do at the time, because you know, it’s gonna benefit your future self later.
Dana: Yeah. I think I; I feel like every crazy season of business we’ve been in. I look at it as I want to blame circumstances. I wanna blame an employee. I wanna blame everyone by myself. And really when I look back at it, I’m like, oh, I just didn’t manage this well at all.
Yeah. I didn’t manage my expectations. I didn’t manage my time. I like threw money out a problem as opposed to like trying to solve the problem. And, and it’s like, you put a Band-Aid on something, well, eventually a Band-Aids gonna fall off and then it’s gonna be like, you know, yeah. When really it needed stitches.
Right, right. So it’s gonna be worse, infected all that stuff. And that’s, that’s how I feel like we lived a good portion of our business life. It’s just like put a Band-Aid on, put a Band-Aid on it. I always hate that. Like I always struggle. With that a lot.
Courtney: I hate like wasting time and I hate wasting money. I hate it when we have to go back and do you spend so many money, so much money and I hate it when we have to go back and do something again. Cause it wasn’t done right the first time, like the.. And I can’t, I can’t all windows. Well, and I can’t think I can’t really be graduate decisions. We didn’t really have options at the time, you know, but
And that was, I mean, true. Like we, we did, we did what we could afford until what we could afford was, was not great things, but then you look back on it and you’re,
Courtney: not having a fence wasn’t an option.
Dana: Right. But if you look back on it and you’re like, okay, yes, I can see that based on the circumstances that I had it was the best decision and where I take the blame is we didn’t give ourselves the best circumstances. Like sure. That’s why I look at it as, and like, we were so afraid of everything that we just played it so safely that if we had just like fully jumped in yeah. And trusted ourselves, it would’ve been a very different story.
Now, granted, you can’t, it’s hindsight’s 2020. And I understand why we made all the choices we did. I’m not saying that, but I’m saying I can also look at it and say, okay,
Courtney: Yeah, but then at the same time, let’s look it this way. We made those choices. We did it as minimally as possible. We carry as little debt as possible and everything that we have now, like every improvement that we have made at the Bradford now, besides like the big ballroom, is bought for cash, right?
Yeah. So we’re not Moring it, we’re not paying interest on it. None of those things. So, I mean, there are some good positives in there. But I,
Dana: I think that because we refinanced in general, like, yeah, it’s not like we built it and that’s what it was. We had to rack up a ton of debt that we did have. So I, I think that if we would’ve just asked what we needed, like if we’d asked for like the half a million dollars that we needed and built a, how we wanted to build it at that time. It would’ve been. And I think we still would be in the same financial situation we are now.
Courtney: Okay. So we talked a little bit about, how well they met Sarah and Jessie and whatnot, but they had said that they put that on their vision board as the celebrity that they wanted to meet that year, which I’ve never specifically thought about meeting a celebrity any particular year. So if you were to put a celebrity on your vision board to meet in say like 2023, who would that be?
I have no idea.
I thought it was interesting that she said Sarah Blakely, cuz I’ve said that before. Yeah, like in this podcast that it would be amazing to meet Sarah Blakely. Cuz I think she’s an amazing business person, the way that she’s grown her business. I think it’s amazing., so that would be fun. I probably wouldn’t dress up like Sarah Blakely.
Dana: I feel like I’ve met so many neat people though in the past year and a half, like this podcast that I don’t feel like I’m the lack of like, yeah, like I’m wanting like I’m don’t have that inspiration.
Cause I feel like a lot of people, most people, we like interview have been super inspirational. But.
Courtney: How about Elise Myers? It’d be so fun to meet Elise Myers, might just be fun.
Dana: Yeah. I would enjoy that. I do love her. She’s so entertaining.
Courtney: She is so entertaining. I don’t know. I’ve always thought it would be really fun to meet somebody like to me, like Brené Brown or yeah, Glennon Doyle. I feel like I’d glean so much from them.
Like they’ve given me so much and they have like, their knowledge and presence and ability to cut through bullshit, I think is of
Dana: Jen Hatmaker. That’d be a neat person.
Courtney: There would be.
Dana: Yeah. But all those people, I feel like they already give me so much of themselves, of themselves. You don’t need to meet them.
No, I, I think it’d be neat to meet them, but I feel like it would be neat to meet them just to like, confirm that they’re good people., you know what I mean? But I feel like they give so much, especially. Glennon Doyle and Brené Brown, like their podcast. Like there’re like so much in there, you know, like you, you feel like, you feel like, you know them, you feel like you can, they’re already teaching you and,
Courtney: you know, Brené works with her sisters. Yeah, her sisters work with her.
Oh really?, which I think is really interesting. Like they all have pivotal roles, key roles in her organization.
Dana: Yeah. That’s I think Glen works with her sister., it’s like her manager, agent or whatever. Something like that.
Courtney: Do you think is interesting? That is interesting. I think it must be interesting. It’ll be interesting to have for your sister.
Dana: Yeah. To have like a famous sister and then you’re liked behind the scenes person. That’d be weird.
Courtney: Wouldn’t that be weird?. That’s how I feel.
You don’t work for me.
no, but I have a famous sister. I’m the behind-the-scenes person I, I was telling Dana this the other day, though, that we were driving back from Florida. We were talking about celebrities and Liam, my eight-year-old asked me, he said, are you a celebrity?
Asked me that, and I was like, no, he’s like, I feel like you’re kind of famous.. I said, only in really small circles. like in my industry and I wouldn’t even say famous, like people know me. He’s like, I feel like if you’re not a celebrity, you’re going to be one, but you seem like a celebrity to me. it always makes me like, think like, what do our kids think of us?
Dana: Oh, Ada thinks that because she’s like any, and, and it’s true. Anywhere we go, we go out to dinner. We go to like the Walmart we go to target. I always know somebody she’s like, how do you know so many people? I was like, well, I literally have done thousands of weddings.
Which means I have thousands of clients. And take that times let’s just say on average, a hundred person, a wedding I mean, it’s a hundred thousand people. That I’ve like interacted with. And a lot of times I don’t even know. I don’t recognize them or I don’t know them and they’ll just stop me or say something or whatever, but it’s like, it’s just when you’re surrounded by that many people. All the time, like you bounce know a lot people,
Courtney: it is weird when someone that you don’t know knows who you are.. I remember when we were walking into the Kendra Scott that one day and oh yeah. We were looking at some jewelry and girls staring at us and she’s like, do you guys own the Bradford? We’re like, yes. Yes we do. It’s like, I’ve been following you. Like that’s weird. I think, yeah. It’s like, I don’t know who you are. You feel like you should, like, if someone knows who you are, you should have some reference for who they are, right? No, nothing. They work at Kendra Scott, I guess.
Right. All right., I loved other thing I really liked is how open they were to feedback in their like original, I was thinking that, I was like, you guys have tough skin to ask for all that feedback.
Dana: You guys have tough skin but I think it comes from a place of definitely have to have tough skin, but the drive to be better has to be greater than your own like humility. You know, or your own pride, own pride. Sorry. I have to have, have to have more humility.
Courtney: Yeah, absolutely. It’d be hard to like start your business early that way. Like,
Dana: but I think this way for me, feedback from random people is I can take better than feedback from like someone that I care about one, because I don’t trust the feedback from someone that I care about. I, I don’t trust that. They’re actually being honest with what they thought it was. They’re just trying to like, be kind or be nice or something. And, or they’re trying to like sugar code or like tiptoe around.
I’m like, just say it, just say what needs to change. Right. So the reasons why I really love, our PR person, Megan Elie, cause she will give you it straight. She will. I mean, she’ll tell you. like, she’s very nice about it. Like she’s not rude. She’s not disrespectful. She doesn’t like minimize what you’ve done, but she’s just like, this is what I see and take it for what it’s worth. But this is what I would change if I was you. I’m like, okay.
Courtney: I do think that she is very good about that.
Dana: Yeah. And she’s thorough. It’s not like, that’s what I appreciate too, is people who take the time to actually answer the questions and to give feedback that is helpful. And not just feedback, just to hear, just to give feedback.
Right. Like I had to fill out, like I’ve been filling out like reviews for like these experience conference and all that stuff. And like my thoughts and I didn’t wanna just be like, great. They were great. I’m like, you know what, let me give something meaningful here. Like this was super helpful. Or I felt like this was an area.
Like I could understand what you were saying, but it was a little unclear or, you know, I didn’t really think that this was the best avenue or place that this person should have been talking about. Right? Yeah. Like not to be mean, but, this is from my own limited view. This is how I felt.
Courtney: I think it’s helpful. I, I do think that as I get older and grow businesses or whatnot, that I really value people’s feedback. So I tend to give more feedback to people.
Dana: Yeah. But I have a hard time because I think that we live in a world of like, and I think this is worse now than it was when we were younger of insecure people.
like when you’re, when you’re an insecure person and you’re about where you are and who you are, your feedback is meaningless because you can only look at it through the eyes of yourself. So you can say like, okay, like, and I, I remember this early on, like there was something I felt like I deserved whether it was because I felt like I should have been the one talking or speaking or something, and then you’re giving feedback on that person. And you’re just like, you’re ripping them apart because you’re like, oh, I would’ve done it so much better. You know what I mean?, and it’s different when you’re in a place where like, okay, I’m happy with where I am at.
I’m on a trajectory that I appreciate. And you’re able to look at it more objectively. Which is, I think anytime you get those nasty, negative one-star comments, it’s be, it has nothing to do with you. it’s everything to do with how they’re feeling
Courtney: or a comment from a family member.
Dana: right. But you know what I’m saying? Like, but I, I think that that is how I’ve started to look at when I give feedback as like, is what, what is my purpose? what do I hope for this person to gain from this? Right and is it something that I need to say, because I wanna hear myself talk and I need to sound off and if that’s the case, that’s like not helpful, not in.
Avenue that’s like between a friend and you wanna vent or whatever, or is it something that I feel like genuinely is harmful to another person that needs to be addressed. You know? Yeah. And those are kind of like my parameters yeah. For giving it. And if I cannot have anything nice to say, I just don’t say anything at all.
Courtney: I know. And I also think that like as a general rule. And this definitely does fall in like the family category for me is like, if I didn’t ask for your feedback,, like, don’t, don’t give it to me. Right? Like I’m not open to it if I’m not asking you for it.
Dana: I know I had a, this is a couple years ago, but I had a, an issue with somebody. I called a friend of mine, a business friend. I said, hey, like, I don’t know how to handle this. She’s like, well, step one is text them and say, I need to have a con, I would like to have a conversation with you. Are you open to some feedback? And I did. And the person said no, and I said OKAY. Which meant one, it saved me so much energy. Because I could’ve launched into the problem and they would’ve never heard me.
Yeah. They would’ve never heard what I was trying to say. It was so defensive. Cause they would’ve been so defensive so they’re not ready to hear it. And I can respect that boundary, be like, all right, cool.
Courtney: Never mind. Never mind.
Dana: I’ll be having a great time. Suck it back.
Courtney: See you later.
Dana: you know, but like it’s, I think it’s like the, one of the best pieces of advice I’ve ever, ever, ever received from anybody is when I feel the need, like I have is like, can I give you some feedback?
And if they say no, then, okay,
Courtney: the end. All right. Well, my fuck up of the week was, we had just did experience and we were, did universal with the kids and we were in Orlando and we were getting ready to leave and we wanted to have one last breakfast together with like the parents and family and whatnot. And we were gonna do it at the restaurant at the hotel.
And it was like a 30-minute wait. So we’re like, all right, well, we have a 10-hour drive. Like we can find another restaurant or whatever. So Dana finds a Perkins and it’s like two miles away, get everything loaded up. And it’s not even breakfast time. Mind you at this point, it’s like 10 30 or 11.
O’clock right. Like it’s later in the day and we get to the Perkins and it’s a 30-minute wait.
Dana: Wait and mind you, I had called and they said, there’s no one here that
Courtney: great. We get there. It’s a 30-minute wait. So we’re like, are we gonna wait? Are we just gonna go? So Dana calls another restaurant that’s down the street also at least a 30 minute.
Wait. We’re just gonna disperse, get your own breakfast. It’s fine. So we get in the car and we drive a good hour, like from where we were. So now it’s like, literally like close to lunch time. like, you’re not even in lunch BR or breakfast, brunch, any of that. And we decide to go to Cracker Barrel.
Cause there’s like very limited, fast food that I can eat. Cause my gluten intolerance and we get. And it’s a 30-minute wait. I told Mikael, I was like, we were not avoiding this 30-minute wait. And we should have just had the original 30-minute wait at the breakfast at the Hotel, which was the good breakfast. So that was my fuck up of the week.
Dana: mine is also about traveling was probably the, it was, not of the week, but of the week before, when I just forgot that my kids get car sick. And I should have Jeremy mean them before we left and, or at least, the very first Trek from our house to Florida, it’s like an hour of stop and go of stop and go like traffic lights going through Fayetteville.
And in general, we’re in the car, the kids can’t do anything. They can’t read. They don’t like look at their phones or their tablets or whatever. And I just was like driving by myself and I didn’t wanna hear any bitching. So I was like, sure, whatever, do whatever you wanna do. And they both got car sick within five minutes of each other.
Yes. Yeah, I texted. So Ada got sick and I do travel with a bunch of Ziploc bags, which is like my mom tip of the year. Always have, I have literally a box of zip blocks in my car and they’re great. They throw open them and then they’re, they have to, we wait until they’re done puking and then they zip it up and they go throw it in the trash cam at wherever we’re stopped.
Cause I wanna let them get out and get some fresh air. So I texted Sam after Ada start puking, and I was like, oh, one’s down. And he’s like, hopefully that it was within like 30 minutes of the trip. He’s like, well, hopefully that just bodes. Well, the rest trip be fine. I was like, yeah. So we’d get back on the road. There were like not 10 minutes, not even 10 minutes. And Henry’s like, I gotta throw up. So he pukes, I was like, oh my God, this is, we pull
Courtney: over ma cuz we were a car. We were carpooling. And Mason was like, we’re just gonna roll on. Tell ’em that we’re gonna roll on.
Dana: I did do that. And then, so then we stepped at a Walgreens. I got some Dramamine and some other stuff and made them, I just basically was like, I don’t wanna hear a word close your eyes. Take the pill go to sleep and Courtney’s like, all right, let’s go. And I, I see her and I was like, why is she going this way? It’s super bizarre. And I’m driving, driving. And I was like, I am following the wrong car.
and Courtney’s like, calls me. And she’s like, where are you? I was like, just I’ll meet you in Melbourne. I don’t know. I am like 10. I went five minutes. The wrong way. I’ll turn around. Well she’s no, she didn’t
Courtney: say I, I didn’t. You called me and you said, where are you? And I was like, I don’t know, you were right behind me.
And she. I followed the wrong car. I’m like, well, I’m not there. yeah, I’m headed to here. We caught back
Dana: up together. We did I was like; I couldn’t figure out. I was like, why is she turning around already? Like, she’s going the wrong way. And I was like, it wasn’t even, it wasn’t even a car similar to her car.
It was just, it was literally just a black SUV, any black SUV.
Courtney: All right. Well, that was such a good episode. It was so good.
Dana: It so much so fun. It was a lot, lot of fun. I know we’re gonna have to come back cuz I, I think we’re definitely gonna order one. For, for Thanksgiving. And we’ll have to come back and give some feedback.
Thanks. No, just tell me how much I love it. Yeah. Cause I’m sure it’s wonderful. I’m sure it is.
Courtney: Thanks everyone for gathering us today to talk about the hustle for our episode with Jackie and Cassie, we are drinking an espresso martini. We hope you get the chance to make it this week in cheers to sisters in business. To learn more and connect with Jackie and Cassie, you can visit their business on Instagram at bundle game, or visit their email@example.com.
You can also connect with them personally on Instagram by searching at Jacqueline Collier and at Cassie underscore Collier.
Dana: To learn more about our hustles, Visit us on the gram at canddevents, at thebradfordnc, At hustleandgather, and at anthem.house. And if you’re interested in learning more about our speaking training or venue consulting, head to our website hustleandgather.com.
And if you love us and you love this show, we’d be more than honored If you left a rating and a review.
Courtney: this podcast is a production of Earfluence. I’m Courtney
Dana: and I’m Dana.
Courtney: And we’ll talk with you next time on hustle and gather.
Hustle and Gather is hosted by Courtney Hopper and Dana Kadwell, and is produced by Earfluence. Courtney and Dana’s hustles include C&D Events, Hustle and Gather, and The Bradford Wedding Venue.