Raleigh Chamber’s First Female CEO in 130 Years Adrienne Cole

What is the role of the Raleigh Chamber in affecting vulnerable communities in the Triangle?  What about diversity and inclusion? Economic development? Education? Transportation?   The leader of the Chamber – CEO Adrienne Cole – joins the Donald Thompson Podcast to explain its mission.


Donald Thompson: Welcome to the Donald Thompson Podcast. Today, it gives me great pleasure to introduce to you our guest, President of the Raleigh Chamber, Adrienne Cole. Adrienne, welcome.

Adrienne Cole: Thank you so much for having me. I am super excited.

Donald Thompson: Yeah, me as well. One of the things that I enjoy doing as I talk with business leaders; tell us a little bit of your personal backstory and that way our audience will be listening, and we’ll be talking just as friends.

Adrienne Cole: Oh, that is so awesome. Thank you for the question. So I’m one of those unusual characters who was born in Raleigh, but I wasn’t raised in Raleigh. I was raised in New Bern, which is a small Eastern North Carolina community on the coast; moved there when I was three. I’m the oldest of three kids. I’ve got two younger brothers.

I think I was fortunate in that I was raised by parents who, you know, grabbed whichever one of us was nearest to help out with whatever needed to be helped out with at home. And so there wasn’t any, you know, “These are the jobs for you because you’re the girl,” I have two brothers, “And these are the jobs for the guys.”

It was sort of, we all were in it together and it was a great place to grow up. I went to Meredith College. So back to Raleigh, there’s a boomerang to Raleigh story here. Went to Meredith, a wonderful, wonderful environment for me; graduate school at Appalachian. So I have a master’s in Public Administration and, you know, started my career out of graduate school in Pamlico County, North Carolina.

So again, back to the East. And they were looking for a County Planner, and Economic Development Director, and Department Head of Building Inspections, Emergency Management, 911, and I was the Fire Marshall. And I was 25 years old, Donald.

Donald Thompson: That’s awesome.

Adrienne Cole: I didn’t know anything about anything, but what happened in Pamlico County that was amazing is, you know, I had to, I had to just jump in, and the County Manager at the time was this retired army Colonel. And I would go into his office with a question and he would not even look up. He would hold his hand up and sort of flick his hand at me and say, “Adrienne, handle it, handle it.”

And I was like, “I don’t know how to handle it.” But he taught me to trust that I could figure it out. It also was my introduction to economic development, which set me on the path for my career. And so that ended up being this trajectory that I didn’t discover in graduate school. Now there are tracks in graduate school for people to become economic developers.

But when I was getting my MPA, Economic Development wasn’t a track. I discovered it in that first job in Pamlico County, that my father encouraged me to apply for. And I remember thinking, “dad, they’re not going to hire me, I don’t know what I’m doing.” But they did. They saw something.  And what a blessing, because it set me on the path of economic development that ultimately led to–

I was the Assistant Director of the Economic Development Council in Carter County, then took over as the Executive Director there, then moved to Raleigh to run Raleigh Economic Development. Then moved into the lead role with Wake County Economic Development, which is a program of the Chamber. And then that led to the role that I’m in today as President and CEO of the Chamber that I’ve been in. It’s hard to believe it’ll be four years in March.

Donald Thompson: That is awesome. And thank you so much for just, kind of bringing us personal and then back, back to professional. I, I want to take back to that one comment, learning that you can figure it out. You know, one of the most valuable things that you can share with someone that you’re charged to lead or be a mentor is high expectations.

And giving people the opportunity to figure it out and fail a little bit and  learn. And, and that sounds awesome. So thanks for sharing that in a phenomenal way. As we move on to talk a little bit about the chamber and your experience there, and, and your role as leading that, that organization, you’re the first woman to lead the Chamber in its 132-year history.

Adrienne Cole: Crazy, huh?

Donald Thompson: That is significant. Right? A little surprising, but significant. What does that mean for you? What is that legacy that you’re chartering in a, in a major impact organization in North Carolina? How does that make you feel?

Adrienne Cole: Wow, it’s a great question. And I’ll, I’ll back up a little bit to say that I’ve actually been the first woman in seven out of the eight positions I’ve held since graduate school. So this wasn’t uncharted territory for me. And because it wasn’t uncharted territory, I was just excited about the opportunity. I really didn’t think much about the fact that I was going to be the first woman in the role. And I also was fortunate in that, you know, the chamber has had such incredible leaders. And I got to learn from and be mentored by one of the best. Two of the best I would argue.

So I had the great fortune of working for Ken Atkins when he was the Executive Director of Wake County Economic Development and what a gem of a person he was. And then with Harvey Schmidt, who was the, the Chamber President for 21 years and a wonderful mentor to me who challenged me at the right times and taught me and, and he was a sounding board and continues to be a sounding board to this day.

And so when the opportunity presented itself to apply for the CEO role, I didn’t, I didn’t feel entirely ready. I don’t know that you ever feel really ready, but I felt like it was an opportunity whose time had come for me, and that I needed to go for it. And that I didn’t need to be a hundred percent ready to go for it, because back to what I said before going to the foundation, you know, not only in Pamlico County, but that my parents really forged, I was ready to trust in my competence.

And trust in my ability to figure it out and trust that I was going to surround myself with people who I could ask questions of. I’ve got an incredibly talented team who compliment my skillset. I felt ready in that sense, even though I, I knew that, that I was going to have a lot to learn.

Donald Thompson: Oh, that’s powerful. One of the things that I’ll seize on, and that, you know, as we work in the diversity and equity space, oftentimes men will apply for roles. They’ve got 70 to 80% of the qualifications and they just believe in their DNA, “We’ll just figure it out.” Right?

Adrienne Cole: Right.

Donald Thompson: Whereas, whereas women in general, the numbers bear will not apply if they don’t feel 90 to 95%, that they’ve checked every box. And so one of the things that we’ve had to learn is how to create job recs and descriptions.

Adrienne Cole: Right.

Donald Thompson: And have a little bit more openness to that creative space —

Adrienne Cole: That’s right.

Donald Thompson: –That you can grow into. And so I think it’s really, really powerful that you understood that, and you have that confidence that, “I’m going to take this leap because I’ll figure it out and I’ll surround myself with great people.” And so, that is awesome.

Adrienne Cole: That is so true. And it’s something that I tell young women and men, because to your point, creating the space for that growth and also creating the space for it to be okay not to know everything on day one, but to trust that you’re going to get there. And then, you know, that, just sort of innate sense of, “It’s going to be okay. I am ready enough. And I trust that I’m going to figure out the rest.”

And it takes time, you know. Some other great advice I got at the beginning of another job, not the one that I’m in now, but I had a, a colleague who was already in, in a similar role, say, “It’s going to take you 18 to 24 months to really feel like you’ve got your sea legs.”

And that was such a gift because it wasn’t that I was not going to strive to learn as fast as I could, but it gave me some permission to not have it all figured out in day one. It’s just that taking that little bit of pressure off ourselves because goodness, you know, we all put a ton of pressure on ourselves. So it was taking that little bit of pressure off of myself to say, “Okay, it’s okay if I have a bit of a, a learning curve here.”

Donald Thompson: That’s right. No, that is really, really, that’s powerful and exciting. And I think as we do these podcasts and chat with folks, you know, most of our listeners are very well established in their careers or their direction of their careers, but we all, as individuals are still dealing with those points of fear, uncertainty, and doubt–

Adrienne Cole: Right.

Donald Thompson: –That keep us from our greatness, from our excellence.

Adrienne Cole: Right.

Donald Thompson: And so I think it’s wonderful, that encouragement piece from your parents. Right? Because it starts with, with that family unit and, and that’s a blessing. And then you’ve had a lot of great mentors and, and I share that as well. And  I’m, I’m super excited. Let me ask this, as we think about the chamber and the leadership challenge, there has been, you know, I’ll use the phrase “racial tension” that is an automatic understatement. Right?

Adrienne Cole: Mhm. Mhm.

Donald Thompson: Right? We’ve had some political things going on. We’ve got this pandemic going on. Let’s talk about diversity, equity inclusion a little bit and some of the racial tensions that have been going on in our country. How have those things impacted the chamber?

Adrienne Cole: Right.

Donald Thompson: Created opportunities that you all have leaned into? Tell me what’s going on with the mind of a leader with some of these elements that are around us.

Adrienne Cole: Thank you for those questions. And, and if you’ll bear with me, I’m going to go back a little bit in time. So we started organizationally, a journey around equitable economic development about six years ago. So I was still in the Wake County Economic Development role. So I was the Executive Director of Wake County EDE, which is a program of the Chamber.

The County had just done their vulnerable communities heat map that showed pockets of vulnerability, looking at several different metrics throughout the County. And I will never forget it, Don. We were having a staff meeting and I had my ED team around me, and we were looking at our project load. So companies that were considering the market and the number of jobs that they were going to create in the investment. And, you know, knowledge-based economy and six figure average salaries and we are so fortunate in this market to be attracting the types of talent and companies that we were attracting. Right?

But meanwhile, I had this heat map on my desk. And I stopped the meeting and I said, “Gang, what are we doing about that? What is our role in affecting, or, or making a difference for vulnerable communities in Wake County?” And I said, “You know, we’re a chamber, we’re an economic development organization, but what is our role?”

I wasn’t interested in throwing a bunch of stuff up against the wall, see what was going to stick. So I wanted to know what other communities across the country were doing. So we hired RTI to do a best practices look across the country. And they did that coming back with policies and programs that were moving the needle in vulnerable communities from an economic development, economic mobility perspective. Presented that information to the County commissioners in a work session.

And they are wonderful partners of ours in our economic development work. And from that conversation, we were able to hire a Director of Equitable Economic Development on our team. And that’s Danya Perry.

Donald Thompson: Got ya.

Adrienne Cole: So Danya comes on board. Meanwhile, I had moved into the CEO role at the Chamber. There was another organization working in the community, which you may remember, the Triangle Diversity Business Council. Their founders, Christopher Gergen and Ken Lewis came to me and said, “We’d like to partner with the chamber, we need more structure, we’re, we’re volunteers, we have day jobs we need, you know, we would like to partner with the chamber.” I was just brand new into my role. We had just hired Danya. I said, “Give me a year,” you know, there was a bandwidth issue. Right?

But I was very, very interested. You know, we were building out the Equitable Economic Development program. And I really was interested. I’ve been participating in the Triangle Diversity Business Council and in those meetings. And I was really interested in that work Um, and how will we could help companies get better in this space.

So from that a year passes, almost to the day, and I had another conversation with Christopher, and we decided to move forward with that partnership. And we brought it into the chamber and created the Triangle Diversity, Equity, and Inclusivity Alliance because we really felt like equity was an important part of the conversation.

And so that was March of 2019. So we had launched that program and had done some conferences, we had started our courageous conversations series, we had started some programming to support practitioners with corporations that were working in the DEI space. We were bringing the DEI professionals together to share best practices. Fast forward, 2020. 2020…

Donald Thompson: Yeah.

Adrienne Cole: And the murder of George Floyd and the racial reckoning in this country. And the raw emotion and understandable, just, you know, it was just palpable. And we we’re in a position as a chamber that I think was maybe unusual for chambers in that we had been a part of these conversations. So it enabled us to have a seat at the table and to continue learning and being honest and talking about, “What do we need to do next?”

Donald Thompson: Yep.

Adrienne Cole: And that’s really informing. Not only the work that we’ve been doing this year, but the work that we will be doing for years to come that is not easy work, but my goodness gracious, it’s the right work for the future of our community.

Donald Thompson: That is awesome. And I appreciate you taking the, the time and space to, to develop that, that journey. Right? And, and really, it makes a very powerful statement about the Chamber in that these macro events may have accelerated some things, but your mind and commitment was already there.

And that is really, really powerful. What do you say to business leaders or people in general that asked, “Is this diversity inclusion stuff a fad? Is this something that is really going to be a long-term part of what we need to think about?” How do you bridge that conversation with what I would say the uninitiated?

Adrienne Cole: Right. Great question. I, so first of all, I think it starts with the leader’s commitment and belief. And I believe that it is foundational to our, not only our, our corporation’s success. Because there’s a lot of data that shows that diverse teams are more effective. They’re more creative, they’re more profitable, they’re more innovative. Those companies are the companies that are getting it right.

It’s also important for our communities. We think about talent pipeline and how we are facilitating economic mobility within our community. And, and  it also bridges so much of our work. Right? So it bridges into public policy. Those policies that are on, that we’re looking at, at the local and the state level, it bridges into transportation and mobility. It bridges into housing and those sorts of things that bridges certainly into education.

And so when I think about our work as an organization, it is absolutely as fundamental as those other things that we are working on when we think about having a community for all. And a Wake County that works for everyone. You know, we have all of these accolades that our community gets. And I’m thankful for every single one of them.

I feel honored to do this work in this community. This has not been an easy year to do it, but what an honor to be able to do it here. And we are a, we are a winner in economic development, we’re a winner in the talent equation, we have incredible parks and greenways and an open space and reasonable cost of living.

But that isn’t the case for everyone in Wake County. So everyone’s experience has not been what those accolades would reflect. And this isn’t pie that we’re talking about. It isn’t like there’s a finite amount to go around.

Donald Thompson: That’s right. You can make more pie.

Adrienne Cole: We can make more pie. And so why wouldn’t we want those opportunities to eliminate the barriers for all of our citizens? And, and that’s where the, the work comes around, dismantling racism. And making sure that we’re having those very honest conversations to identify barriers. And, and I think that it absolutely is fundamental to our economic success, to our staff, to our talent success long-term. And so it, it’s work that has to continue. I’ve heard people say, Danya has said, “It’s a movement, not a moment”. And I think that that’s true.

Donald Thompson: No, that is awesome. I appreciate that. One of the things as I learn more about the Chamber, you know, I would say, you know, I remember having coffee, you and I, maybe it’s three years ago now?

Adrienne Cole: Yes.

Donald Thompson: At a burger’s bagel shop in just our first-time spending time.

Adrienne Cole: Mhm.

Donald Thompson: Right? We had known of each other and seen each other, but the first time we really got to spend time. And the, one of the things that I was really impressed is I didn’t fully understand all the different things that the Chamber was responsible for.

Adrienne Cole: Right.

Donald Thompson: It was such an opportunity just to hear the breadth of what you all are doing. If you are talking to someone and they’re thinking about becoming a member of the chamber, how would you share with them that it’s not just this white male cigar smoking club, but it is an action-based organization doing great stuff. What are some of the highlights that you would share about the chamber like you did with me?

Adrienne Cole: Right, yes. I love that question because, so first of all, I tell people that when you’ve seen one Chamber, you’ve seen one Chamber. So depending on where you’ve come from, your view of a Chamber of Commerce might be very different than what our organization is all about. And, and that goes to you know, the size of the organization, the size of the community that the Chamber’s in. And Chambers tend to respond to what their community needs in some, some regards.

And then some of it also is driven by the size of the community and the scope of the organization. Wake County Economic Development has been a program of the Chamber since the mid-eighties. We’ve partnered with the city on economic development work since the mid-nineties. We started the Regional Transportation Alliance 20 years ago, almost.

So when we look at our work at the Chamber, I would say that you could sort of divide it into a couple of categories. One, you know, we certainly work to, to support the business community. And that’s small businesses to large businesses. We have one-person entrepreneurs who are members of the Chamber on up to our largest employers like IBM.

We also are very, very focused on what I would refer to as product development. So those things that make our community great. So education, transportation, diversity equity and inclusion, some of the public policy things that we work on, transit and transportation. Those elements we often run bond referendums to support a lot of that work.

We, we have a long tradition of being the advocacy arm for the Wake County public school system bond referendums. We most recently, we’re the advocacy arm for the housing bond referendum that just passed to, to Generate $80 million for affordable housing in the city of Raleigh. All of those things that we are focused on that help make this community one where companies and individuals can be successful.

And then at the, if you think about the third area, it would be that economic development where we’re working with companies that either are already here and interested in expanding or companies that are interested in moving in from other markets. It’s where we’re working to support entrepreneurs to, and growing companies.

It’s where we’re marketing externally. So we have a digital marketing campaign right now targeting the Northeast and the West Coast for companies that may be looking for a better talent picture, an area that has a lower cost of doing business. Maybe isn’t as crowded as where they are. And has opportunities and access to amenities that they can’t access in those parts of, of the country.

Donald Thompson: Got it.

Adrienne Cole: That’s where we have our talent initiative. So, for people interested in getting involved in the Chamber, one, it is a diverse organization. We have a diverse board, we have a diverse executive committee, we have diverse companies in terms of size and what they do. And we really like to meet people where they are.

So if someone has a particular interest in public policy work, then there’s an opportunity there. If someone has a real interest in their company around transportation and mobility, then the Regional Transportation Alliance is an opportunity. If we have folks who are really interested in the diversity, equity, and inclusivity work that we were talking about, then the Triangle DEI Alliance is a great place to plug in.

“We want to collaborate” kind of place. And the other thing I would say that I think is unique about our Chamber and our region is that we bring people together to work on stuff. I take a ‘”see a need, fill a need” kind of approach. If I, or our board, or our executive committee, our companies, our members, sees something that they think deserves attention and focus, and it’s within our sort of sphere —

Donald Thompson: Yep.

Adrienne Cole: Then we’re going to, we’re going to look at it. We are very entrepreneurial in our approach to these things.

Donald Thompson: That is awesome. And you know, one of the things that I’ve experienced with the Chamber is the educational opportunities that you provide to the membership. And you all are very cognizant of staying on, kind of on tempo with what people need at the moment.

Adrienne Cole: Thank you.

Donald Thompson: And seeing you all convert from live events on premise to the virtual events, and the way that those have been orchestrated. So, so bravo for–

Adrienne Cole: Thank you. Thank you.

Donald Thompson: –That, that transition. Let’s take a step back, and not specific to the Chamber, you’re leading an organization, diverse organization, a lot of different stakeholders. What are some of the principles of leadership–

Adrienne Cole: Sure.

Donald Thompson:  –That you  to keep in the forefront to keep you successful? To keep you moving forward? What are some of the things that, that your leadership style embodies?

Adrienne Cole: Mhm, thank you.

So that, it’s a great question. I think the first thing for me personally is I’ve never found that freaking out helps anything. I really haven’t. And so I, my team is, is used to me, you know, a problem comes at me, and I rarely will react right away.

Nine times out of ten, I’m going to react quickly. I’m not going to let it sit too long, but I, I almost every time, unless the path is very clear, will go, “Huh? Let me think about that.” So I almost always take a little mental step back from the problem so that I can see it more clearly, maybe breathe a few times, and then decide how I’m going to respond.

That has helped me because you’re right, we do have a lot of constituents. We have a large membership base that represent a large number of the employees in the community. So about 1,800 members representing about two-thirds of the employment base in the area. And we work closely with elected officials.

We work closely with other nonprofits. We really value those partnerships. So, I’m not going to “knee-jerk” in my reaction to anything. From a personal leadership style, my team doesn’t ever have to wonder what they’re going to encounter with me. There, there isn’t any, one day she’s in a good mood and the next day she’s not. I do not want people walking on eggshells.

And so, you know, I feel like as a leader, it’s my responsibility to moderate my own moods and behavior and to provide that steady, steady presence. I think that that’s important. I think that it’s been more important than ever in 2020 in navigating a time of real uncertainty that I needed to stay the course.

And we’re going to get through this, and we’re going to make the best decisions we can with the information that we have at the time. So that’s part of it. The other part of it is, I believe strongly in relationships, trust and integrity, and in humility. You know, I’m not all that and a bag of chips

You know, and I, and I’m not, I’m not better than anybody else. And 99.9% of the time, people are just trying to do the best they can.

Donald Thompson: Uh huh.

Adrienne Cole:  And that you have to protect those relationships and you have to be who you say you’re going to be. And that trust is sometimes hard won, but can be easily torn down. And you really, so those, those are the things that guide  my leadership.

I also keep in the back of my mind, a Harvey-ism, which is, “You can fake sincerity, but you can’t fake showing up.” So you really have to show up for people. And that’s been harder in this virtual world, but not impossible. So, you know, you can still show up, even if it’s on a call or on a video chat across the parking lot with a mask on. You can–

Donald Thompson: That’s right.

Adrienne Cole: –Still show up for people. And then the other thing I would say is, you know, really trying not to let fear get in the way and to know that my team hears me say, you know, “The cake doesn’t have to be fully baked for us to move on something. We can keep adding ingredients until we get it just right. I know that sounds sort of cheesy, but it’s true.

We don’t have to wait to have everything completely ironed out before we move on an initiative that’s important for our organization, our members, the, the community.

Donald Thompson: I, and when you said, you said a lot to unpack. And I think the biggest thing that jumped out to me was that steady presence.

Adrienne Cole: Mhm.

Donald Thompson: Because our teams respond to the temperament and the behavior of the leadership.

Adrienne Cole: Right.

Donald Thompson: And it’s hard to be creative problem-solvers with fear.

Adrienne Cole: Right?

Donald Thompson: That doesn’t mean fear doesn’t exist. It’s just hard to be in the moment, innovative, maximum thinking gripped with fear.

Adrienne Cole: That’s right.

Donald Thompson: Part of, part of the leader’s job is to create the right context that, yes, this is a challenge, but together we can push through it.

Adrienne Cole: Mhm.

Donald Thompson: And if we need some outside help, let’s get that. But together we can push through  in that, that mindset. So I appreciate those things that, that, that you described. And, and especially not letting fear get in the way of moving forward. When you think about growing a business in North Carolina–

Adrienne Cole: Mhm.

Donald Thompson: –A company moving to North Carolina. What are some of the highlights that you pitch? So you’re apart of these different companies and different folks that are thinking about relocating or growing in North Carolina. Right? Give me that, that one- or two-minute pitch. That, why NC? Why the Triangle?

Adrienne Cole: Why the Triangle? Yeah, that’s great. And I’ll, and I’ll preface that to say that every company’s drivers are unique. So we always dig for what’s really going on with those companies so that we can hit on what’s going to really make the difference.

But overarching all of that, I would say the very first thing is our talent. They can access talent here that is second to none, and that they cannot access anywhere else. That comes along with an ability to partner with our colleges and universities with Wake Tech in a way that is much more difficult in other parts of the country.

So that, that’s probably the first thing that we talk about. We do talk about collaboration broadly because I am not kidding. We do it better than really anywhere else in the country. And we hear that from companies over and over and over again. They come in and they’re like, “Wow. When you all said you collaborate, you really collaborate.”

And so we hear that. Right? We’re hearing that from those companies. Certainly our cost of doing business is lower than many of the places that are considering moving here. So that, that runs in our favor. And then it gets down to other things that are much more specific for a, a particular company. But I will tell you that we work on everything.

I tell people, it’s hilarious. I work on everything from potholes to headquarters. And it’s the truth. You know, I might have an existing company. And we love, you know, existing companies that are thriving here and that have the potential to grow, those are the best projects. Because you know, those, those are your corporate citizens and leaders who are already here, so we want to help them.

And yeah, I may have a, a leader call and say, “Adrienne, there are potholes in front of my, my business and they’re tearing up my trucks. And can you help?” Yes, sir. I can. And the next call might be a consultant in Chicago saying, “We have a client that’s considering your area for corporate headquarters. Can you help?”

Absolutely. And the other thing that I think is special about what we do here is we team up regionally. So it is not unusual for us to be working a project with our colleagues in Durham. With our colleagues in Johnston County. We really want to win it for North Carolina first, the region next, and then if we’re fortunate enough to get in Wake County, fantastic.

Donald Thompson: Got ya. That is a great– that is well, well-stated. Like, that is, that is awesome. Competitive collaborator.

Adrienne Cole: That’s right. That’s exactly right.

Donald Thompson:  That is awesome. Last, last question. And I want to be careful of your, of your time. I’m thankful and appreciative of you spending time with us today. How do you want, you know, when you think about your legacy, how do you want to be remembered? What are you building to?

Adrienne Cole: Goodness. You know, that’s a great question. Well, first I think I’ve got a lot more work to do before, before there’s going to be legacy. But I would say that she showed up. That, that she was there when we needed her, that she led an organization to become a much more diverse organization than it once was. That it’s an organization for, for the community and for the business community and for, you know, diverse business leaders. And that she made a difference and that she was a good partner.

Donald Thompson: That’s awesome. Adrienne, thank you so much for spending time with us. This was amazing. And I continue to look forward to getting to know you better working more closely together with, with our work and business. And with the Chamber in North Carolina, and Raleigh in particular, it’s very fortunate to have you.

Adrienne Cole: Well. I am so grateful for being with you today. Thank you so much for having me.

Full Episode Transcript

The Donald Thompson Podcast is hosted by Walk West CEO, mentor, investor, and Diversity and Inclusion Consultant Donald Thompson.

Music for this episode provided by Jensen Reed from his song, “You Can’t Stop Me”.

The Donald Thompson Podcast is edited and produced by Earfluence. For more on how to engage your community or build your personal brand through podcasting, visit Earfluence.com.

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