The Earfluence Podcast

Hosted ByJason Gillikin

A podcast from a full-service podcast production company on how to make a podcast and other news about podcasting.

The Social Dilemma

So, maybe it’s not about podcasting, but it’s important! Jason and Cee Cee watched Netflix’s new documentary, “The Social Dilemma,” and it left them thinking about the ways they interact with their friends, family and clients online. Hear them talk about their film critiques, why they see what they see online and the power social media has over our lives.

Earfluence Podcast with Jason Gillikin and Cee Cee Huffman - The Social Dilemma

Jason Gillikin: Well, welcome to The Earfluence Podcast, which is a podcast about podcasting from a podcast production company. I’m your host, Jason Gillikin, and with me as always is Cee Cee Huffman, social media manager, content writer, associate producer, doer of all things at Earfluence – welcome Cee Cee Huffman.

Cee Cee Huffman: Hello. I love how every time that you list out what I do, it’s always different, but that is very true. The day to day is always quite different. So, my friend is actually doing project for his voice and diction class on – like, he had to pick a person that he knew who worked somehow related to voice and diction, and he picked me, which I thought was really funny. And he’s making a PowerPoint on me and asked for my job description. I was like, that’s a long description.

Jason Gillikin: That is amazing.

Cee Cee Huffman: Yeah. From student to now somebody’s presenting about my job, which is definitely going to be interesting.

Jason Gillikin: And you’re a voiceover artist now. You’re the, you’re the intro and outro voice of the “If You Only Knew podcast.

Cee Cee Huffman: Yes. I just, I do it all. What can I say?

Jason Gillikin: That is awesome.

Cee Cee Huffman: Yes. Thank you for having me per usual.

Jason Gillikin: So I wanted to talk about a documentary that I watched recently, I asked you to watch it as well. One of the more popular documentaries on Netflix called “The Social Dilemma.” I don’t know exactly how it ties back into podcasting, but you know, we are in the media and we are doing social media with our podcasts, so hey, let’s, let’s talk about it and, and see how it ties back into podcasting, ’cause it’s an interesting topic.

Cee Cee Huffman: Yeah. I mean, they talked a lot more about, about a lot more than just like typical social media. Like the way it had one of the characters in the scenes, you know, watching those YouTube videos that weren’t – or not YouTube, but those videos, that was definitely supposed to be YouTube that were like kind of feeding him propaganda and stuff.

So like, podcasts kind of tie into the same thing and like, how do you find a podcast? Where do you listen to it? You do it all on your device, and that’s really what the movie was about. So I think, I think it makes sense, but it was definitely really interesting and really well done. I can’t believe – like, I’m glad you asked me to watch it for this because otherwise I probably wouldn’t have watched it on my own cause I would’ve felt attacked.

Jason Gillikin: So, all right. Just to recap of what the documentary is, it is about Facebook and Twitter and YouTube and all the social networks and how they are essentially making money. You know, they, they profit off of ads, and their customers are not the users.

Their customers are the people, the companies, I should say that are buying ads from them. Their motive then is to keep as many people on as they can, as many users as they can, and eventually feed them enough ads to make, to make those ads valuable. So how do they keep people on that platform?

And it was really interesting in how they do that. So they interviewed a lot of old executives from, from Facebook, from Pinterest, from a lot of those social media networks. These essentially were the people that created the system, and now, they’re reflecting on it and thinking, ‘Well, shoot, did we create something that has consequences that we didn’t think of about?’ Talk about those consequences, or those potential consequences that, that they discussed in a, in the documentary?

Cee Cee Huffman: Well, one thing that I think they did really well in documentary was they didn’t make it just people talking. I said before my attention span, probably because of social media, is really short.

So especially documentaries, I can’t focus very long. So they also had the storyline with the family to kind of demonstrate the realities of what it is about, and I thought that was really smart ’cause it helps people be able to see themselves in the situation rather than think like, this is a bunch of executives that are just was talking about something. Why should I believe them? Of course, they’re going to think this, whatever. But, a lot of the issues that the kids have, I mean, it’s just, it was like drugs. They were like addicted to their phones and they were getting misinformation on the internet that was causing harm in the rest of their lives. They were having like, self esteem issues. Like their, the daughter, you know, wasn’t sure like she didn’t, she felt like she wasn’t good enough because she didn’t look like other people and she didn’t get as many likes and things like that. I mean, I think we see, see those consequences day to day in our own lives, whether or not we necessarily realize it. Like, misinformation is everywhere. You have to be smart enough to figure it out, and a lot of times it’s hard to be able to do that. And you know, it’s a lot easier to compare yourself to other people when you have so many other people that you can easily see to compare yourself to. So, those were two of the really big problems that they talked about a lot.

And I mean, it’s definitely present.

Jason Gillikin: So, social media and because they want you to keep, they want you to stay on their platform, they ended up giving you all the information that you agree with, that you like.

So, you know, you are, am I right to say more left-leaning?

Cee Cee Huffman: Oh, definitely.

Jason Gillikin: Okay. Just making sure

Cee Cee Huffman: I’m on the left side of the room up against the wall.

Jason Gillikin: So like, I lean left as well, especially with our leadership today. So like, you know, I, I’m wondering if you’re starting to like all these things and you only see what you agree with, essentially, you know, they made the point that everybody is just so far apart now. The left wing and the right wing is so far apart. You know, everybody is just so much at each other because the left and the right – or the left sees the right as imbeciles and the right sees the left as whatever it is, I don’t know.

Cee Cee Huffman: Snowflakes, whatever. Yeah.

Jason Gillikin: Yeah. And so like, you know, social media, you know, what part does social media play in that? And you know, what did, what did the social dilemma teach you? If anything about

that?

Cee Cee Huffman: I think it definitely plays a part in it because like, the example that they used is if you join a Facebook group that is like, prone to propaganda, then they’re gonna suggest that you join other groups that are propaganda, because that’s clearly what you like.

I think that, I mean, obviously that’s an issue, but that’s better for them because he keeps more people on the screen, like we were saying, and the more people that are on the screen, the more ads they sell, the more money they make and it’s just this kind of vicious cycle. I also will say though, I minored in public policy at Carolina, so I talked about political polarization a lot, just because I was a freshman the year that Trump won. And so, our entire like, four years was kind of watching this progression of like, this political polarization. I think it definitely has a role; however, I kind of had a problem when they kind of blamed it solely on that, just because I think that, like they said, “Oh, well now people will stop being friends if you are different politically.”

I think that a lot of the issue that we see now isn’t necessarily politics. I think what we have a lot now is like, moral issues and somehow we’ve tied political parties to having certain morals. Like, it’s no longer about whether you value like, big government or small government. It’s like, do you hate people of a different race or do you not?

Jason Gillikin: Yeah. Now, do you feel like, does social media have any sort of responsibility to show you more things that you don’t necessarily agree with?

Cee Cee Huffman: Hm, I think yes and no. I think obviously, as a company, their motivation is to make money. And also an example that they used in the, the film was Saturday morning cartoons. And so I was a broadcast journalism major, we talked a lot about, like, I took this public policy and media whatever class. And we talked about that specifically because like, you know, they needed to make sure that when you advertise to children, that you weren’t advertising things that were bad for them.

And there’s not any type of regulation for social media on that, which just kind of gives these people a reason to get as much data as they can, whether or not they need it, to start to like send you things really, really targeted really, really well. And while that is great, there needs to be some sort of regulation in place that stops, so they’re not so incentivized to want to collect all this data so that maybe they do worse job and you start getting things that maybe you don’t necessarily like. But I also think like, all media is like that like equal time, like you’re supposed to give everybody on both sides,a fair time to like say their opinion and whatever. I think something like that in social media would be good. Like if there was some sort of regulation where it’s like, well, if I’m going to send you this stuff, I should also send you that stuff. But at the same time, does that also contribute to the divisiveness because it’s kind of separating these two groups before it even tries to change your mind and make you pick one or the other. So, I just think more truthful information is what’s important. They don’t necessarily have to send you things that you agree with or don’t agree with, they should really just send you the truth and let you decide what you believe That was a long way to get to that answer, but.

Jason Gillikin: No, that’s a good answer. And it’s gotta be tough though, for those social media companies, you know, to be able to truly regulate all this information that’s coming in and figure out what’s true and what’s not, but you know, they have the money for it and they do have the responsibility for it.

I thought it was pretty alarming one of the, I think it was one of the investors like, one of the bigger investors, he said that Russia did not hack the election. It wasn’t a hack. They just used whatever was available to them – legally – you know, to, to spread misinformation. So, you know, they didn’t hack into anybody’s accounts. They didn’t have to. They could use whatever rules that Facebook allowed them to, to, you know, potentially swing the election. So that was, I mean, I had been under the assumption that Russia had done something that was, you know, illegal. Yes, morally wrong on both counts, but I thought it was illegal also.

Cee Cee Huffman: Yeah, no. I mean, it’s, it’s crazy the kind of power that you can have on a platform like that and how easy it is to put out information that people don’t know is true or false, and it’s honestly kind of embarrassing. Like, you think that we’ve come up with – you can target these people so well and find out all this stuff, but you can’t tell me whether or not this is true?

And then at the same time, when people start to try and regulate that, like Twitter was trying to start, you know, putting flags on Trump’s tweets as to whether or not they were true because the President of the United States should only be telling you things that are true. And it’s kind of embarrassing that we’re at a point as a country where the leader has to have their tweets censored because he can’t tell the truth, like that’s pathetic in and of itself. Anyways! But, they tried to do that and people got mad because at this point now, we’re so far in the hole that people don’t want to hear the truth, they want to hear whatever they want to hear. So, I mean, I think ultimately, and this might be the journalist to me, that’s what we need to go back to. Like, just figuring out a way to make sure that people are getting the truth and deciding the information themselves, because now it’s like, you’re getting the truth based on the party that you’re in, and there can’t be two truths. You know, like you always say, when there’s an argument with somebody, there’s my side of the story, there’s their side of the story, and then there’s the truth, and that’s what we should all be looking at.

Jason Gillikin: So, I mean, can Facebook do that? Like, can they deprogram people, you know, from believing a guy who’s been lying to them, you know, for the past, however many years?

Cee Cee Huffman: I think no, but they can try. And hopefully, knock on wood, they won’t have to hear that much from him for much longer. But if that’s the case, I mean, any effort would be a good effort because they just, they haven’t, they don’t seem to have put any into it as much – like, if you watch Mark Zuckerberg, testifying in court, like he, he’s a mess. Like he doesn’t, he has no answer to this ’cause they haven’t, they don’t know how to do it and they haven’t really tried because they’re not incentivized to do it because they’re still making money. So like, he’s doing just fine. So why should he go and put in all this work to try and fix everything else when he’s doing just fine?

This would not be so much of a problem if we still had trust in our media, which I personally, as a broadcast journalism major, like I trust the media. Like I know – I was trained to do what they do. I know that they’re going to get the story and they’re not trying to put in any other misinformation, but everybody has had a president for the last four years that has told them the media is wrong. And I think that’s also contributed to this terrible situation that we’re in because now people think, “OK, well, I can’t watch the news because they are not going to tell me the truth, so now I have to look at my feeds and try and find the truth for myself, which is being curated to me specifically based on what I want to believe is the truth.” So I think also that that was something that struck me and I’m surprised that didn’t really come up in the documentary at all because I think that part of the reason that it’s such a problem that this is happening is because people feel like they can’t get their information from other places.

Jason Gillikin: Hmm. That’s a great point. Yeah, and I don’t, I really struggle with people believing all these conspiracy theories as well. So like, I get that you want to believe what you want to believe. If that means you don’t believe the other person, then I kind of get it, but like, you can see, right, from here that this, this one guy is clearly not right.

And just clearly not practicing kindness and is not somebody that you would want as a, as a leader, in my opinion. And then you look at this other guy, who seems to be nice enough. I mean, I don’t know that much about him. He seems to be nice enough, but you want to believe that there is some conspiracy theory out there about, you know, the, the left, and ANTIFA, and Pizza Gate and all these other things, right?

Like, why? I just don’t understand when you see it right in front of your eyes, what the, what the certainty is versus what it might be like one out of a billion times. Like, you know, that, that conspiracy theory could, could be true. I don’t quite get that, but it started to become clear after watching this, is that like, “OK, you know, I’m liking this, I’m liking this, I’m liking this,” and all of a sudden, you’re way down this path of, “Oh, it must be, it must be Pizza Gate. It must be, you know, this conspiracy theory.” So. Whew. Alright.

Cee Cee Huffman: Yeah. I mean, I think, it’s good. I think we have different, very different opinions just because we’re diverse in like age and gender and whatever, but our political opinions are pretty similar.

So I wish that we had somebody who was more on the different side of the internet than we are, because I mean, I don’t know what that looks like, and I hopefully never will because I, it seems just kind of scary to me.

Jason Gillikin: Cee Cee, it is hard to find somebody right now to talk about that. We wanted to do a webinar with Donald Thompson – uh, we do the Donald Thompson Podcast. We wanted to do a webinar with him and three conservatives, where he would just ask them questions and we couldn’t find anybody because – and I get it like. It’s hard to, it’s hard to say that you’re, you’re supportive of this guy and, and people are worried about cancel which I completely understand, but yeah, it’s hard to find.

Cee Cee Huffman: If you believe something that you’re too scared to talk about because it might make everyone hate you, maybe you should start questioning why you believe it.

Jason Gillikin: That’s a good point,

Cee Cee Huffman: too.

Like, I mean, that’s just logic, love. Like, I don’t know. I don’t get it.

Jason Gillikin: Yeah. Let’s talk about the addictiveness of social media, and you grew up in the social media age. I didn’t, I didn’t get Facebook until I was 30, I think.

Cee Cee Huffman: I was 12.

Jason Gillikin: Yeah, right? So like, you know, you grew up in it, and I’m, I’m curious, you know, what, what’s been your experience, what’s been your challenge. Like how do you, you know, how do you not get lost in, you know, being worried about the likes, how do you not get lost in, you know, what’s, what’s your reality versus what’s in social media?

Can you talk about that at all?

Cee Cee Huffman: Yeah. I think that it’s a challenge for me personally, especially now, because for the last couple of years I’ve been working in social media, so I know that people, whenever things get bad for them, they just, you know, delete the apps off of your phone, like you’d done recently, and they just take a break from it completely.

And when it’s your job, you can’t do that. And sometimes that can feel like a bit overwhelming, but at the same time, I don’t think I’ve ever been at a point where I’ve truly felt like I’ve needed to delete it because I think that I do a pretty decent job of separating who I am in real life versus who I am on the internet, but also they’re the same person, you know? Like I know that like, it’s, it’s tough, but like, I know I have value outside of how many likes did I get. I almost think like people on the internet aren’t real.

So like I was talking to someone the other day, and I didn’t know them at all. Somebody had introduced us and they said, “Oh, I remember like, it’s so nice to meet you, but when I look at you, the only thing I can think about is the video, your senior video that you made for UNC.” I forgot about that existing. They put this video out in May – it did really well, it got like, across platforms, it got like 80,000 views or something like that. But, I forgot that it existed. And when I make stuff like that, I forget that it’s real people, which I think is probably a good, it’s a good thing. It’s a blessing and a curse because it takes out a social aspect.

But I forget that 80,000 views means that 80,000 eyeballs, 80,000 sets of eyeballs, looking at your video to the point where people are going to remember you six months later for something that you did, you know? So I think to me it also feels like not very real. I don’t, like I talk to people over social media or like I text people or call people or FaceTime people more than I do anything like that.

Because I, to me, it almost doesn’t feel like it’s. Real at this point.

Jason Gillikin: Yeah, no, I get it. That’s good advice.

Cee Cee Huffman: Really long answer, though.

Jason Gillikin: Yeah. Well, you mentioned that some of your friends have struggled with, you know, mental health, I guess. So, you know, what, what can they do like a, is it, is it to just picture people that aren’t real or it just to think of it as, as not real?

I mean, because the, the documentary talked about, you know, mental health challenges and suicide rates going up, with younger girls. And you know, it, maybe there is a correlation there, you know, with whether somebody is getting 50 likes or three likes on, on a given photo.

And as, as the father of three girls, like, you know, that’s a concern, you know, that I have as they’re coming up on that age where, you know, they’ll be using social media in a few years, so, you know, what, what can be done?

Cee Cee Huffman: I think that – I mean, yeah, kind of reminding them that what they see on social media is not really real, especially when you see photos of like celebrities or like, like women, a lot of women will Photoshop their photos to look like celebrities.

I will go in there and whiten my teeth on Facetune – you better believe – before I posted an Instagram picture because I want my teeth to look white. Why not? You know? So like everybody’s doing it. So, nothing that you see is real, it’s all the perfect versions of themselves that they want to present to the rest of the world that they can’t necessarily present on the day to day. And I don’t think there’s necessarily anything wrong with that because it can – if you can look at a picture of yourself and be like, “Damn my teeth look white. I look great.” You know, that’s good. That’s good for your confidence.

The problem comes when you look for that same validation in other people because ultimately, at the end of the day, the only opinion that matters about yourself is your own because you live with yourself every day. You don’t live with all these other random people on the internet who might be real, might not be real, who knows. You know, they’re just a number. So I mean, that’s, that’s my approach to it. It’s a lot easier said than done, I know. But I will say that like, I grew up doing pageants, and so I’ve been scored on how I’ve looked, you know, and at this point I’ve been so conditioned that I just don’t even care. Like one time this judge rated my beauty and she gave me a five. This like 30-year-old woman told a 12-year-old she was ugly. Do I care? No, because I know that I looked good and I don’t, it doesn’t matter to me, but that’s, I mean, not everybody has that same experience and that’s a hard lesson to learn.

And don’t think that I haven’t had like, struggles with that because it definitely have, but now I just know that like, it doesn’t, it just doesn’t matter.

Jason Gillikin: Yeah. And as a 12-year-old that had to sit with you. There’s no way you couldn’t-

Cee Cee Huffman: It did and it didn’t because, I mean, I did it all the time. So I was like, ‘This is just one more person’s opinion.’

And then at a certain point you stop caring ’cause I did it because I liked to dress up in pretty dresses, and sing on stage and perform for people. Like that’s always what I’ve loved to do, and that’s why I did it in the first place. So, I mean, yeah, it hurts when somebody kind of calls you ugly like, nobody wants to be called that, but then it’s just like, it’s just one out of three judges on that day, and there’s going to be three more judges the next day who might think you’re the most beautiful person in the world. So like, nobody’s opinion really matters. It really doesn’t.

Jason Gillikin: Gosh, I, if I was your dad, I could not handle that. If it was me, I would struggle with handling that also. So, gosh.

You know, I think Instagram didn’t, they take off the number of likes, so it makes it harder to see how many people like a particular photo now? Did they change that recently?

Cee Cee Huffman: They do for some accounts. So, they talked about this in the movie as well, that, they, a lot of times companies will beta test things on certain groups of people to figure out the most efficient way to do it. So, on our Earfluence account, we can’t see the number of likes that a post has gotten. On my personal account, I can still see the number.

So I, and that’s been like that for like six months. I remember in March or something like that was when they first started changing it. And my friend in, at the UNC Communications Office was like, “Oh, I can’t see how many likes people have anymore.” I was like, “I can!” So yeah, I mean, I think it works to a degree, but also that’s a, you can see your own, but it’s still kind of a metric that is helpful.

Like when people talk about all the data that they collect – which this is something I want to talk about, too – the all of the data that they collect on you while you’re scrolling, like what you like, what you don’t like, how long you look at it, what you go to next, how long you stay in the app, whatever.

All of those insights help people to make better content, which ultimately helps a business that they’re kind of like selling their profile to the ad companies. Like it’s a really convoluted thing, but I look at our insights every day. I can see that all of our users on Instagram Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday are mostly on at 6:00 p.m.

What does that mean? I’m going to post a picture at 5:55 p.m., so that way, when they get on at 6:00 p.m., we have something for them to look at. And that’s helpful for us because that boosts our engagement and that gets more people listening to us and we make more money and we have more listeners. So like, I lost where I was going with this.

Jason Gillikin: You’re getting at, you know, the, the documentary painted a very negative picture, but there are a lot of positive things that come from social media. It’s not, it’s not all addictive. It’s not all divergent in terms of right versus left. You know, some people like to go on there because they like to see their niece and nephews pictures, right? Like, you know, that’s, that’s what some people want to be on Facebook for. Or, or in your case, you want to see, you want to insight into how can we best serve our customers.

Cee Cee Huffman: Absolutely. I want to ask you though, because I think we probably have different opinions on it, just because people of different generations have different opinions on this.

How do you feel about people tracking your data?

I always love to ask that question.

Jason Gillikin: OK, so. Ten, 11 years ago, my, my wife and I are dating and I joined a, I am a member of a gym, Lifetime Fitness, and they switched to a, a thumb print to get in, and I am like “No freaking way. I am not giving you that information because I don’t know what you’re going to do with it. Why do you, why do you need all this information?” And so I quit, I quit the gym because of the stupid thumbprint and then my, my wife and mother-in-law are like, they think it’s funny and cute, I guess, but then they’re like, “Wait a minute, is this guy a felon or something what’s going on here?” And I was like, “No, I just don’t need to give them my information.

I have, I have, bought into the machine since then.

Cee Cee Huffman: Yeah, got an iPhone that took your thumb.

Jason Gillikin: Yeah. No, I, I don’t care as much anymore as I used to. Like, I know I’m not doing anything that, that is going to, you know, negatively affect me really. Like, you know, I’m not worried about, you know, the things that I like online. I’m not worried about people looking at my purchases. I’m not worried about any of that. Like, they would see now that I live a very boring life it’s not that interesting. So like, there’s nothing there. So, you know, have at my data, I’m not really too, too worried about it. So I’ve, I have changed. Like I was, I was more of a, the, the grumpy old man, back in my late twenties, early thirties, but now I’ve come around.

Cee Cee Huffman: Yeah. That’s interesting because I don’t care either. Like, I mean, yeah, sure, they’re probably going to take my data and they’re going to start sending me things that are going to keep me addicted to social media, and that sucks. However, I know that other than that – which is something that I can work to actively control myself-  I don’t really care like, I’m not doing anything. It doesn’t really matter. If you want to see – the thing that’s interesting to me is, I was in an advertising class last fall. And the professor was like, “Here’s how you can tell if your significant other is cheating on you.” And you can go into your frequent places in your settings on your phone, and you can see a map of everywhere that you’ve been and how frequently you’ve been there. And like, you know, when you get in the car and you plug in your phone, Google Maps is going to say, this is probably where you’re going ’cause this is the time of the day, the day of the week. This is like, you know, like they use that data, they use it it’s there and you can find it yourself too, if you really want to see what other people are seeing, that’s it.

But I just thought that was really interesting. So if you ever wonder if somebody is cheating on you, Google how to do that, because it’s very interesting.

Jason Gillikin: Yeah. That professor probably broke some hearts that day.

Cee Cee Huffman: He said “A couple of years ago, it actually did end up – we did find out somebody was getting cheated on and that was pretty upsetting,” but nobody in our class.

Jason Gillikin: Oh, that’s funny. So you said you took pages of notes. Did we not cover something?

Cee Cee Huffman: I think that’s pretty much everything that I wanted to talk about, though. Oh, actually, this is my last thing. My brother is 14, and he actually was just a part of a photo shoot that I was doing for this project that I’m working on, which he didn’t want to do because he’s a 14-year-old boy, but he did it and he looks great.

But he won’t download any social media, and I can’t get him to. I – because we post all of our photos on Instagram – I was like, I really want you to get an Instagram ’cause, I’m going to tag you, and I just like, want you to be able to see how good you look, you know, trying to like, gas him up a little bit.

He’s like, “No, I don’t want it.” He has a Facebook, but he hasn’t been on there. Like he’s 14 now, his picture is from when he was like 11. So like –

Jason Gillikin: Huh?

Cee Cee Huffman: He, he just doesn’t care. He has absolutely zero interest in it, and I think that’s really interesting because I also think that we imagine our world as being like, everyone is addicted to this technology, but there are pockets of people out there, like my 14-year-old brother who just realize they have other  things to do and aren’t really impacted by that. Like when I worked at the planetarium for awhile, pretty much nobody there had like, social media. Like, they used to tell me – they were all physics majors – they used to tell me that I had my own language because I would talk in all these terms that like people use online all the time that they, they had never heard before.

So I think this movie was very good and that it opened people’s eyes to a lot of things I think they didn’t really know, but I also think it’s important to realize that they had a mission in that and that it is, it is a problem, but there’s still people out in this world who don’t have social media at all, who aren’t being affected by it in the same way.

Jason Gillikin: Yeah. I mean, social media is a tool and, you know, if you can use any tool the right way or the wrong way.

Cee Cee Huffman: That’s a great way to put it.

Jason Gillikin: You can use that a hammer for a lot of harm instead of you using it, what it’s for and you know, with, with social media, you can use it for a lot of positive, if you become addicted to it, that that can be a problem.

if you’re using it to, to find misinformation, that’s a, that’s certainly a problem. I think do have a responsibility, you know, to, to make it better and to, you know, to, to feed you content that is, that is the truth, but it’s going to take a long time and this can be hard to do.

Talk about your , your side project. You mentioned the side project.

Cee Cee Huffman: I actually want to talk with you about the side project at some point, because I need some advice, but it’s called Looks Attached. It is a digital fashion, entertainment, culture magazine. This probably won’t come out until after the room’s already opened, so I’ll go ahead and tell you about it. It’s framed around early voting. And, basically we have this like perfect, nuclear family for this shoot that it looks like everything is nice, but really everyone’s just super unhappy, and everyone’s kind of struggling with like how to change their lives because they’re just not happy in what seems to be the perfect life. And just kind of talking about how it seems like our country is so perfect and we’re always taught, you know, America is like the land of the free and whatever, but, you know, we’ve got a lot of issues, like a lot, a lot of issues and it’s not really a perfect place, so that’s why you should go out and vote. But that’s our latest room, we do these about every month or so, but.

Jason Gillikin: Nice. Call to action, go vote. And then where can people find Looks Attached?

Cee Cee Huffman: @looksattached on Instagram, or our website is our pride and joy www.looksattached.com.

Jason Gillikin: Very nice. Cool. Well,Cee Cee this has been awesome. I don’t know that we ever got back to how the social dilemma matters to podcasting, but it was fun to talk about anyway.

Cee Cee Huffman: I work. I’m a social media person and I work for you, so I feel like that’s a free pass to talk about social media every once in a while, ’cause I really do love it. As much as I know it can cause some problems, I really do love social media and I’m happy that it’s something that I get to do everyday Right.

Jason Gillikin: Cool. Well, it was great to talk to you as always.

And then if anybody listening to this is interested in podcasting, that’s what we do. So you can always go to www.Earfluence.com, see some of the things that we’re working on, you can get some consulting, and you can sponsor some of our podcasts as well. We’ve got some great ones, including one from Anson Dorrance, Dr. Debby Stroman, Donald Thompson. We’ve got a dental podcast coming out , and of course, Guess the Guest, which has just been a lot of fun.

Anyway, Cee Cee Huffman, appreciate the time and we’ll see you next time on the Earfluence Podcast.

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The Earfluence Podcast is a production of Earfluence Media and hosted by Jason Gillikin and Cee Cee Huffman.