The wine gut debate, and how Dr. Ferro beat COVID

Dr Bill Ferro and Erin O’Hearn discuss “Surprising Side Effects Wine Has On Your Gut, Says Science” from – is wine actually good for your gut health? Plus, Dr Ferro talks about his recent battle with COVID.


Bill Ferro:  Okay, well, welcome to the Quacks and Hypochondriacs podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Bill Ferro. I started my career as a chiropractor inside health clubs, obviously by my buff appearance, you can see that, but I turned myself into a gut health expert. So if you wanted to call me a quack, you would not be the first on this podcast.

We’re going to give you the inside scoop on the so-called quacks of the world. The quackery claims who you should and should not listen to, and why sometimes hypochondriacs had every right to be paranoid about their health. Today with me is the lovely cohost Erin O’Hearn. She’s a journalist for ABC news in Philadelphia.

Absolute fitness, fanatic and relevant to this conversation. She is someone who loves to drink wine, Erin. It’s good to have you back and good to be back myself. How’s everything going?

Erin O’Hearn:  Everything’s good. You know, this is a topic near and dear to my heart. It’s also good for my heart apparently, but I’m excited to talk about it because as a quote, unquote, fitness fanatic and someone who’s interested in gut health, This is also a topic that is very conflicting to people and there’s a lot of conflicting information out there.

Bill Ferro:  Agreed. So what we’re talking about today is the surprising effects of drinking wine, especially red wine. They’d call this out in an article that came out on eat this, not, which is a very cool website. And the articles talking about the multitude of health benefits of alcoholic beverages, particularly as it relates to gut health is interesting, but there’s also the other side of it.

You know, alcohol has also been proven to, you know, take away your gut health, but, you know, before we get into all that, I just got over COVID.

Erin O’Hearn:  Yeah, how are you feeling?

Bill Ferro:  Great.

So I’ll tell you that how the experience, so as ironic, feely as it is, we did a whole podcast on COVID-19 had doctors. And of course I had been touting the benefits of healthy gut is a healthy immune system and how important it is. And then with Dr. Whitmire coming on and talking about, well, the studies of giving people probiotics in the hospital and keeping them off a ventilator and reducing mortality by 50%, obviously there’s something there too keeping a good gut health. And I would say that during the podcast, because I am so gut healthy, conscious, and constantly eating good, healthy food and keeping my gut healthy. I felt a little bit like a, I had a superpower or a Superman Cape on after that episode, like, Hey, this COVID is probably not going to, I may not have even get it because, and so I had come back from snowboarding for a week and I happened to go have to go get a COVID test.

Cause I was going on yet. Another vacation.

Erin O’Hearn:  I feel bad for you. You have a, you’re really rough in it.

Bill Ferro:  Listen, you gotta, you gotta work hard and play hard. So I just, my family went in to get a COVID test and Sunday, you know, imagine my surprise Monday morning when it says you’re positive for COVID

Erin O’Hearn:  and you had no symptoms?

Bill Ferro:  No symptoms, I just went in because you needed it to travel.

Yeah. So I had no symptoms. And then of course, as soon as you say, you’re positive of COVID, you’re like, okay, I have symptoms, I’m dead, I’m dead. I’m dying. Like everything that happens to you throughout that day. And so Monday came no symptoms, Tuesday. We of course immediately isolated. I went into the third floor of that, basically the attic and made a little home up there. And then yeah,

Erin O’Hearn:  Did you put like the ET plastic up against the doors, like, you know,

Bill Ferro:  We didn’t, but the kids had put towels outside their room and wrote notes.  No, COVID no daddy. Like they like, come in here. You really know who your family is. Soon as she gets sick, though. Yep. You gave beautiful life. But, but no thanks because I was on a third floor, you know, the steps up to, it felt like I didn’t have to go super far with the plastic.

I did not turn on the HPAC though. Up there. It has its own.  Just so I wouldn’t potentially circulate it.

Erin O’Hearn:  Yeah. Well that was kind of you.

Bill Ferro:  Thank you very much. And so I didn’t really get any symptoms until my talk to my friend on Tuesday night, I had done my Tuesday night call. Like I always do. And on Tuesday night, my friends, like they have you lost your sense of smell and taste.

And I’m like, no. And then I woke up Wednesday morning and I couldn’t, I’m like, is this in my head? And even talked about it. Cause he didn’t know if it was in his head. Cause if you’ve never lost your sense of smell, it’s a very weird feeling. But the thing that was making my brain go in a very crazy directions is that.

I had fell really hard on snowboarding on Saturday. And so my back had started, well, of course, I’m with my son. It’s the last front. I’m like, dude, we’re going to send it, you know, get the video camera. I’m going to take these last three jumps and just crush them. And I actually just ended up crushing myself and that’s

Erin O’Hearn:  Well you are middle-aged and really you should have been operating the camera and he should have been showing off, but we know how middle-aged and the male gender works.

Bill Ferro:  Yeah, it’s all the same. Well, the funny part about this kid is I hit the first two jumps. They hit the third, the third jump and I’m like eight feet in the air. I literally land slam my head, head back everything. And that’s the only time he chooses to zoom in it’s when I’m flat on my back. And he, you know, he’s like, and he came up. He’s like you okay. And I’m like, I’m going to be feeling this so I wasn’t sure.

Erin O’Hearn:  You’re like no,  I have COVID

Bill Ferro:  Yeah exactly, I’m good.. This is, this is the last run. Your dad’s dead. He’s got COVID. So I started having trouble sleeping and then I’m like, so is this back pain from COVID or is this from the fall? Clearly it was from the fall, but your brain’s playing that game and you’re not getting good sleep loss of sense of smell. And then that was it. I just started getting tired. There was no other symptoms other than exhaustion. Yeah. And so I went online and found this doctor prescribes a drug called ivermectin, and it’s a Paris Victor, and they’ve been using it for many, many years.

And I was reluctant because I’m like, you know, I just, I still have good gut health. Is this going to destroy my gut health? I took it anyway because of now I started getting super scared and then I’m like, Oh, this is going to be what a great story. Quack chiropractor doctor doesn’t get vaccine. Thinks he has good health.

It’s going to save them. And now the dies of co does a podcast about, and then dies of COVID rights and like fine. Shoot me up with the vaccine. I’ll take it right.

Erin O’Hearn:  I don’t mean to laugh, but I’m just, it’s how your brain would function. That’s all. And how well I would consider myself dead it immediately upon diagnosis.

Bill Ferro:  Yeah, so your brain goes there and then you’re like, okay, this was irresponsible. Maybe I should’ve got the vaccine. And so you just, you’re going back and forth. And obviously it’s even more difficult cause I’m always spouting, you know, better health naturally. So took the ivermectin felt really well to give this other drug called fluvoxamine, which is for anti-depression and OCD.

Erin O’Hearn:  Wait a minute.

That’s pro that’s just the generic view of Prozac.

Bill Ferro:  Yes. So basically it’s an SSRI and it’s supposed to reduce the cytokine storm.

Erin O’Hearn:  Well, that’s why I haven’t gotten COVID because I’m on Prozac.

Bill Ferro:  Well, a lot of people that’s how they came, came up with this. They started seeing people that were on these SSRIs and were not getting the COVID storm. Yes.

Erin O’Hearn:  Oh, interesting.

Bill Ferro:  There’s a whole 60 minutes on it. About this racetrack in Santa Barbara or Southern California, that the racetrack has its own doctor. And they had all these migrant workers and they , they’re like, we’re going to all get wiped out. Everyone has pre-existing conditions. So study that this female medical doctor was writing a paper on and he said it was so well done that I said what’s the side effects. So I’ll give all this folks fluvoxamine and the ones that got it, nobody went to the hospital. And so there’s this whole treatment out there with ivermectin Luvox I mean, as well as you take zinc where sippin vitamin D is a lot of doctors saying this is actually a vitamin D deficiency, disease and protocol.

And I’m telling you, it, it worked for both of us. We got our sense of smell back. Cause then my wife ended up becoming positive. So we then were the benefit of that was able to quarantine together and watch as many Netflix as possible. And then we did.

Erin O’Hearn:  I’m sure that’s all you did.

Bill Ferro:  It was COVID. My wife  is just like you, right?

She doesn’t even want me to look at her. I’m like, I can’t give you more.


Erin O’Hearn:  That’s actually not true. They said the reason, the reason people in cities were getting it is because they had a bigger virus load.

Bill Ferro:  So we watched a lot of Netflix and we got our sense of smell and taste back very quickly. Neither of us got a fever. And, you know, just tired and exhaustion. And now, you know, luckily now we have this natural immunity, which feels good now.

Now, you know, you feel back and that’s the doctor said, all right. So should we get the vaccine? Because as you know, my wife was on her way to get the J and J vaccine. She stopped. And I was very cautious not to impose any of my ideas on anybody. I am not here to tell anybody, do not get, or do not get a vaccine.

Whatever you feel is best for you, you know, you know, your own health history, better, you know, your doctors. This is a personal decision, in my opinion, anyway. And so when it came to my wife, I also know what, whatever decision it is. It’s always my fault.

Erin O’Hearn:  I actually, I can attest to that because  I had a conversation with her. After you were exiled to the third floor. She explained the, it was whether  I know you didn’t give your opinion and you didn’t force it on her, but I think she believes that through osmosis. Your feelings about the vaccine, she sort of absorbed.

Bill Ferro:  Of course she was going to, if she got it, it doesn’t matter either way. I’m always in trouble. It doesn’t matter. She let Bennett decide to get it. And she came home. Should I didn’t get it? I check it out. I said, okay. I knew how this whole thing is going to play out, especially in my position.

So I was just like, I’m not telling you one way or the other, and I’m not anti vaccines. I’m not a guy. That’s anti-vaccine. My kids are vaccinated. I’m vaccinated. Not for the COVID, but. What I am is data-driven and I just want, I said, as long as we can stay healthy, maybe we’ll just wait for more data to come out.

Well, lo and behold, they just recall the J&J vaccine..

Erin O’Hearn:  I know I was going to say, I’m glad she waited on that one, but

Bill Ferro:  so, you know, no one has a crystal ball, but anyway, my point to everybody is whether you get vaccinated, don’t get vaccinated. If you don’t get vaccinated. If you come down with COVID-19, I would highly look into the ivermectin infobox and me in combination with the zinc and, and, and that, and what I’ve uncovered by really researching it even more and more.

And it’s, there’s a ton of research out there about it is vitamin D is incredibly important. And if you look, look at the Mason Dixon line and you look at those in the Northern hemisphere where they’re getting less sun, and a lot of it’s just came out of, you know, a very dark winter. You still need to make sure you’re not only injecting vitamin D, but you’re getting some sun on your skin because that’s how it gets converted properly in the body.

So that’s my public service message in regards to code.

Erin O’Hearn:  You can, so let me ask you a question about that because, all right, so I’m on the. Whatever the, what is it called? So I’ve been on that and I really started it because I had a concussion a couple of years ago, and it was causing all sorts of anxiety and depression, but, and I just haven’t stopped because it just worked for me.

But my point is the combination of that and that even though we either live up North. In Philadelphia, I go running during the winter, like I’m outside doing things, we go skiing. So I’m assuming that I can absorb the vitamin D that way too.

Bill Ferro:  Yes, absolutely. And is a difference between sitting next to a window and being outside.

Some people think, well, I’m in the car that went no, that the glass will take away some of that UV light that you actually need. So getting outside specifically is the most important way to get it. And you really only need about 15 minutes per day. In the sun to get that max amount of absorption of vitamin D.

And if you don’t right, if you take a lot of vitamin D and you don’t do that, then you’re just making it harder on the body to deal with. So it’s really important, you know, get, get some sun on your face.

Erin O’Hearn:  Well, since I had to listen to your COVID story by, well,  just, I’m going to tell a COVID vaccine story about

Bill Ferro:  That’s me the whole time I had COVID by the way.

Erin O’Hearn:  What?

Bill Ferro:  Just know I was going to be healthy.

Erin O’Hearn:  I did text you and I called Amber and I called you. You don’t remember because of that fall.

Bill Ferro:  That’s probably what it was. Yeah.

Erin O’Hearn:  So anyhow, we, so we did my husband and I decided to get the vaccination and we got Pfizer. So we had our first shot in February and then we went away and got sun and then came back and got our second shot. Now, after the first shot, I felt, I didn’t feel bad. I felt a little off, but that also could have been, you know, sleep. It could have been tequila nose. So then we had the second one and I was a nervous wreck because I’m like, I just. In my head, I had it, obviously, as you can predict that I was going to be super sick out for the count for the day I was supposed to work that Sunday.

I’m like, no, I don’t think he should expect me. And so my husband said, no, no, no, no. We’re not going to get sick. I just know it. We’re healthy. All right. So what happened? I come away scot-free and have basically zero symptoms, except the fact that I was a tiny bit tired, which was cured through an app. Like I literally took a nap the next day and I was fine and he was in bed the entire day after.

And it took him probably a full week to recover from the muscle aches and B fatigue. Wow. So now I don’t know. Now I have better gut health. Because I take probiotics every morning and I just, I’m more calm. Not that he’s unhealthy, but I just am more, I am more focused on my gut health. So I don’t know, you know, I don’t know if, if that was a reflection of how he would have reacted to COVID or it’s just the vaccination, but I personally, and again, I’m not imposing my opinion on anyone, but I feel better for him that he received the vaccine because I’m afraid that the reaction was so adverse.

I don’t know what it would have been if he had contracted the actual virus.

Bill Ferro:  Yeah. Agreed. You know, that’s, that’s why this has to be a personal decision. Some people will yell and say, no, you’re hurting society. You know, do your part. I feel like that’s just another, you know, wrong. I can’t wait. We’re going to bring on another guest one time.

That is actually a true, true vaccine expert. Been trying to get them on forever and he’ll hold the bunk just about every theory on either side of the equation. So ultimately this is a personal decision. The data is still coming in. And ultimately the best thing you can do is improve your gut health. And now is a great segue.

Apparently you can do that with red wine.

Erin O’Hearn:  Oh my gosh.

This is like, this has made my 2021, which isn’t really hard, but it has made my 2021.

Bill Ferro:  I wish we actually had a musical engineer, so we could be playing the UB40 right now.

Erin O’Hearn:  I cannot sing it.

Bill Ferro:  Yeah, that’s not my, my expertise. So this one is kind of easy to talk about because obviously every we like red wine.

I love red wine. I don’t, I can’t drink white wine. I don’t know what it is. You like white wine?

Erin O’Hearn:  Yeah. So I have to say that I do drink white wine, especially in the summer or I’ll drink Rose rosé because I just feel like the red wine is so heavy and it makes me tired, but maybe that’s a good thing.

Maybe this’ll be the push just to drink. Red wine, because I feel that as I’ve gotten older, I can’t have more than a glass and a half of red wine.

Bill Ferro:  Very similar. Like even like now, if I try to have a beer, that’s like an IPA, it doesn’t agree. And I think it is probably potentially to do with age or maybe they just got into hoppy, whatnot, but white wine makes me feel ill red wine.

Erin O’Hearn:  Yeah. So I wanted to ask you about this article because I read it and I could feel my anxiety rising because it would be like I would read the first benefit and then I would feel great and say to myself, I’m going to have a glass of wine tonight. And then I would read the next one and say, I’m not having wine for eight weeks.

And then I read the next month. No, no, no, actually I’m having two classes tonight and then the next one, and then I was like, wait, maybe I should just have a handful of grapes. So. What are you, what was your takeaway from the article overall? Because my takeaway was just again, in the same spot, it’s just moderation.

Bill Ferro:  Yeah. It’s a pit. It’s definitely a ping pong article, right? You’re going, yes, no back and forth. So ultimately when it comes to the bacteria in your body, it’s so diverse that it loves diversity. It loves to eat varied, different foods and the stronger your bacteria gets in your body. The more cravings you have for diversity actually on my call last night, one was saying, you know, I’m really picky.

And when people say I’m a really picky eater, what they’re really saying is, is that they have a very narrow bacteria, diversity, and that’s not good. No, it’s not good. And so the, and that’s what ends up happening. The more unhealthy we get, the more likely we crave bad foods that are not great for us. And that’s narrowing the focus of a diversity of bacteria.

And so what I’ve observed clinically by working with folks is the more they start to slowly like with us, you know, we, we’re almost forcing it, that fruits and vegetables for the first three days and drink more water just by doing that within three days, the new bacteria starts to populate and then it starts to say, Hmm, I actually am craving a pepper for some reason, or I’m craving other diverse foods.

So I think the wine issue is that yeah, red wine in its best form, which is fermented. And if it’s a clean wine, It’s going to feed a certain type of bacteria as it processes in your body. The issue we have just like we have with everything we do is once we start highly processing thing and putting additives into it, it loses the same effect in the body.

And so I think with the big takeaway from this article is we got to stay away from the lower end wines that add sugar, which makes sense because sugar is not good for the, my microbiome in that way. Especially that, that fast sugar, it likes fiber sugar that it can break down. But other than that, it doesn’t like it.

And finding that organic. Wine may also be a benefit maybe, and it may be not have to be organic, but it has to have no what we’re reading.

Erin O’Hearn:  Let’s talk about that for a second, because, so when I was reading the article, when it was talking about the lower, the sugar, the better, so organic wine is a big trend right now, the scout and sellers of the world.

Like it’s, first of all, it’s also a pyramid scheme, but that’s for another podcast. If you have higher end wine, that’s right. Not organic, not necessarily organic or at least doesn’t brand itself is organic. I’m assuming that’s that, that the wines that are dryer that, you know, I don’t want to say costs more, but I guess are your from better vineyards that they’re not highly, what’s the word I’m looking for. It’s not an assembly line of wines. It’s more, there’s more time taken into picking the grapes and the way it’s fermented. That is a good alternative to, because I, my husband is a wine snob, so. I feel very assured by the wine we have in the house, even though it’s not put to put organic that it’s okay, but am I wrong?

Do I really need to look for that?

Bill Ferro:  The jury’s out because everything is manipulated. So getting the, you know, the organic moniker nowadays, you can, you can argue that it’s not really, you know, organic. I don’t know if you saw the Netflix on the climate change in the fishing industry.

Erin O’Hearn:  No, I didn’t have COVID so I didn’t watch that.

Bill Ferro:  Yes. Well, let me tell you, watch that because it shows how climate changes is mostly due to overfishing and how much the ocean has to do with cooling our you know, our environment. And I’m going to tell you, Erin, it is one of the best documentaries it’s so well done. And the reason why I’m bringing it up is that. You know, when you see like dolphin safe, tuna stamp on something or yeah, this sustainable, sustainable fisheries, all bullshit. It’s not.

Erin O’Hearn:  So should I have not eaten salmon last night?

Bill Ferro:  It’s more just the idea that we all have to understand that these labels and these. Companies that are supposed to be looking out for the welfare are backed the same people they’re backed by their, all their funding comes from big fisheries.

Erin O’Hearn:  And I know, but that’s what, everything like how, I mean,

Bill Ferro:  my point is I would say that the best way to look at it and a friend of mine pretty much told me. She said, I understand that when people say, is it really organic? Who knows is, you know, they can manipulate it. Is it really organic? And she said, well, I have to look at the risk reward proposition here.

And I say, well, if you’re right, I’m wasting my money buying something that says organic, I than I should have, if I’m right. And the organic actually means something and it’s full of, and it doesn’t have the chemicals and the pesticides, I live longer without cancer. So. It’s really just buying into the organic may, may be better for you. And she has subscribed to one of those clubs where they just send you the organic wine without the nitrates and the added sugar. And we tasted it. It was different than a Sanjin of ease of wine that we had. And I was like, Wow. This is my really expensive bottle of red wine. And then I had the organic and I could detect a difference than just how it was like processing.

I don’t know.

Erin O’Hearn:  I can too. It tastes, I mean, I hate to use this word, but it does taste cleaner. I mean, I’ve had, I’ve had my friend sells scout and cellar and it’s, it’s very good. I enjoy it.

Bill Ferro:  Did she did you DM her for details? What you have to DM her for


Erin O’Hearn:  No, I’m not seeing them. I know there’s just, no, and I’m not becoming a seller either under her team.

Bill Ferro:  Anytime you see, someone’s like, Oh my God, I’m doing this blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Erin O’Hearn:  Oh made for details.

Bill Ferro:  God, that’s awesome. And they never tell you what they go, DM me for details. You’re in, you just signed up, getting boxes of shit sent to your house. It’s on like donkey Kong. You’ll be driving a jet ski and no time. Freedom.

Erin O’Hearn:  Oh, you’ll have it. You’ll have a pink Lexus delivered to your driveway or a cranberry color. One. If we’re doing the whole scam, I should stop mentioning their name. They’re a great brand. So, all right. Let me ask you this. So we’re talking about the whole organic label. The other part of this article that I think interests people is that not only does red wine contribute to gut health, but you have to sort of have that perfect balance because you can all step up detrimental to gut health. But it was talking about how wine, this is the part that it was the good two sides were sort of butting heads. In one sense, it can help you avoid obesity. In the other sense, it can cause obesity. So when people are talking about eating healthier and eating clean, a lot of times, it means removing alcohol from their diet, which is understandable because you know, a lot of it’s empty calories.

But is, and  this is a true question. When you think about a glass of wine or even two glasses of Y calorically, it’s not that different. I mean, it’s probably less than having a chocolate bar or some ice cream right after dinner. Now it’s the present. It’s the inhibition that you’re surprised, like when you have alcohol, you’re less likely to be disciplined or understand what you’re or what you  are remember for that matter, what you’re eating. And so I’m just wondering, is that more where the weight gain? Like, obviously if you have 15 beers, you’re going to have a year ago, but I’m just from, from as somebody who enjoys a couple of glasses of wine with dinner. Is it more that your inhibitions, rather than the caloric value of, of the alcohol.

Bill Ferro:  That’s a good point. I would say it’s, if all things were equal, it would be what’s in the wine, particularly they added sugar. So that is where these, that’s why this article is all over the place because it’s, you know, it’s not apples and oranges. They’re comparing apples and apples are comparing. Because some, if you have wine, that’s full of sugar, that is obviously just too much caloric intake.

And more importantly than just calorically, it just shuts down the city because your body rolling with this dump, I think there is a difference between one glass of wine and two because of the alcohol content. So as you would think, you said astutely right off the bat. This is about a moderation at the end of the day.

And if you were eating really clean and healthy all day long, and you had a small glass of wine with. With dinner. I think your body will process that no questions asked and the act of drinking and relaxing or the wine may give you lower inflammation and almost act like a as a liquid  meditation.

Erin O’Hearn:  Right. That’s that’s how I feel with it sometimes. Yeah.

Bill Ferro:  That’s where the benefit is. But the negative is, is when that. Small glass turns into two, and then it turns every day. And then of course, now you’re going to increase inflammation. You mentioned the word inhibition, but really also what happens is, is because you might be shifting your bacteria and creating inflammation.

The other side, the next morning you wake up and what do you get cravings for every time you have a night of alcohol, what is typically the next day? The yeah.

Erin O’Hearn:  Fried foods, heavy, fat,

Bill Ferro:  right? Yeah. And, and so I think that that’s the other side of it. So I would never relate, you know, drinking red wine or not drinking wine to regulate obesity.

And that’s why I think the article is kind of interesting that it talks about that these are all anecdotal. So I think what we’re getting out of here to is that a good, healthy quality of wine and very low moderation. If we’re going to just have to pick right now would probably give you some health benefit and it’s also going to make for a happier life and better tasting food.

Erin O’Hearn:  I agree with that. I, so the other thing I think about this article, there’s two, there’s two points that I wanted to make. You know, a lot of people when they think about, Oh, I’m going to go, I’m going to eliminate alcohol for a certain amount of weeks. I mean, I do it like I did the dry January. Right. But that doesn’t mean that on the weekend, if you don’t drink during the week that on the weekends, then it’s like balls to the wall and you’re taking shots and you’re finishing two bottles of wine because that’s not healthy either, because then it just becomes a cycle of either nothing or too much of it. And I can’t imagine that that’s good for you either.

Bill Ferro:  I would agree. I mean, yeah, I totally agree. I have a question for you. True or false. Is there a video of you doing handstands and taking tequila?

Erin O’Hearn:  I don’t know. You have to ask the question. I guess it exists

Bill Ferro:  It’s for my audience, Erin. Okay.

Erin O’Hearn:  Wel, it’s a podcast, so they can’t see it, but if you I’m just, I will say that a while back, there was a lot of snow and I had a lot of stress and yoga helped and tequila help. So I thought, why not put them together?

Bill Ferro:  Yes. And that is the upcoming book that we wanted to announce now, Tequila Handstands.

Erin O’Hearn, how I survived. A snow day.

Erin O’Hearn:  I mean, it seems so silly now because of all that we’ve been through, but I literally was like, I can’t take

Bill Ferro:  these kids need to go to school.

Erin O’Hearn:  That was before the Prozac.

Bill Ferro:  God’s way of saying, listen, if you can’t handle this no day, wait till I hit you with a pandemic and the kids are home.

Erin O’Hearn:  So true. Well, speaking of handstands and tequila, so there’s a couple other points I wanted to make about that article and about just, you know, consuming alcohol in general, as far as your health is concerned, I have found that cause we recently went away for the kids’ spring break. And obviously you’re a little more lenient with your diet when you’re on vacation and you’re a little more lenient with alcohol consumption, but I have to tell you, I never, once in that trip woke up feeling awful because I actually balanced the alcohol intake.

Like I made sure I was really careful of what I ate. Like even, yeah, no, maybe I ate more. We were eating. Fresh vegetables. Like we stuck to fish, I’m reading fresh fish. Cause we were in the keys and then, you know, you exercise so much, right. Because you’re, I would go for a run or do you know, do some sort of cardio in the morning and then be swimming or just walking.

And it makes such a big difference. Like I can’t emphasize enough that when, cause I noticed that a lot of people around me weren’t doing that. Like when you have. Like it just, I feel like just even walking makes such a big difference for getting your body going. Like, I know you’re not like a huge fan of like intense exercise, but I just feel like it does so much for you.

Bill Ferro:  No, I’m, I’m a big fan of intense exercise when your body can handle it. Just like I wouldn’t take, you know, a second grader and put them in calculus, their, their, their head will slip and so create will create more stress and inflammation on them when they’re not ready for it. And that’s what most people come to us. And they’re like, I’m all right. I’m somehow I gained 50 pounds overweight to have my diabetes out of control. So our methodology in the past is, well, let’s just start counting calories and putting you on a treadmill, which is the opposite that, that human being needs at that time, they need to first recover internally.

But I think you bring up a good point about vacation red wine, just life in general and moderation. I treat your weekends like mini vacations every weekend. Right? Cause we’re always a little less stringent on the weekends. And when you go on vacation and say, just pick your poison. So if it’s Friday night and you’re like, you know what, I really want to have a glass of wine, then have a glass of wine, but then don’t have all the bread, all the pasta and the same rules apply for vacation. It’s like, all right, well, just this week, like you said, I’m going to maybe go for a run or a walk in the morning. I’m going to eat a good breakfast. I know I’m going to be sitting by the pool, drinking margaritas. So, and what I’ll do is I’ll fuel myself with vegetables and fruit and other things. And I’ll pick alcohol as my poison for that day and maybe the next day it’s the dessert. But when you’re,

Erin O’Hearn:  Or maybe  it’s just the alcohol everyday.

Bill Ferro:  Yes and maybe it is. And we have a lot of people that say, I want a vacation. I took your advice. And I just picked one poison. And that made all the difference.

It’s when you combine the two or three, that your body is just like, I can’t.

Erin O’Hearn:  I totally, I totally agree that. And I did that and honestly, like I didn’t gain a pounds. Like I, didn’t not that it’s just about weight, but I didn’t come away from the vacation feeling like, Oh my gosh, I was so unhealthy. And I was, you know, was I came away feeling like I was really sick of fish, you know?

And I wanted like a dish, a pasta, but I didn’t come away feeling awful.

Bill Ferro:  Right. And that means your body and mind got a vacation. Right. Normally we treat our bodies like an amusement park on vacation. Then you come home, you feel like crap for 10 days. And it’s like, wait, what was the point I didn’t get to recharge actually just destroyed myself.

Erin O’Hearn:  Yeah. That’s exactly right. Yeah. That’s exactly right.

Bill Ferro:  One thing about this article that I want to talk about before we wrap up here is they talk about the concept called leaky gut syndrome. And that has been a term that’s been. Throwing around. It was probably the earliest term I’ve heard in relation to poor gut health.

I still, I think we started talking about this term back in 2002, 2003, and it got a lot of flag people like, Oh, there’s no scientific against, you know, education or research on what leaky gut really is. And so I, it’s a term that I like to talk about because what most people are saying is that when your gut digestive microbiome is off and your body is full of toxins. The whole goal of your digestive tract is to keep bad things out, let good things in. But if it’s bombarded with chemicals and toxicity, what ends up happening is your internal body says, Hey, send all these soldiers to this gate to keep this stuff out.

So there’s, that’s what inflammation is. And when you get that inflammation, the soldiers have to be let out. So that opens the Gates. So let’s the soldiers out, but as the soldiers are coming out, all this toxicity terrorists or coming in, and that’s what they, that’s what they refer to as leaky gut. And I think in the mind, people think, well, I’m going to take this one substance and that’s going to contribute to the leaky gut. That’s not really the case. It’s a multitude of factors that create chronic low inflammation. With the consistent, when Bartman of chemicals, lotions, as we, you know, when we had Dr. Shaw and talking about putting stuff on your skin, getting into your body, it’s a combination of all those things that create that low level inflammation, which then allows certain substances to pass through into your bloodstream that shouldn’t be there. And that’s Lee, you can call it leaky gut, but you can just call it toxic overload. And so red wine doesn’t lead to leaky gut.

Erin O’Hearn:  It’s a combination

Bill Ferro:  combination. Yeah.

Erin O’Hearn:  That’s to bring a point and I know we’re going to wrap it. There’s two things  that reminded me of, and it was an article that I read or a podcast that I was into talking about red meat and people are conflicted on that as well should, you know, are people who eat red meat, not as healthy as people who have plant-based diets. And the conclusion was that there’s really no data on people who eat red meat in moderation. Along with the clean diet. It’s, it’s really focused on people who are eating, you know, cheeseburgers and fries.

They’re of course they’re going to be less healthy and it’s going to be bad for their heart and for their gut, but having a state, you know, or a healthy chili with ground beef, I don’t think is when it’s just an addition to your diet and not the sole source of your diet can’t possibly be bad for you right?.

Bill Ferro:  I agree. I mean, like when you look at, you know, a lot of the menu items, you know, we have the meal delivery service, we have a chili in there.

We have an eggplant that has a beef in it. We have chicken wings. So when I look at the scope of life, if you look at the people in the blue zone that I can start denia they mostly eat pasta and little bit of pastries. Okay. And they only have meat on Sundays and they have a very little bit of me. They drink wine every day, by the way, as well.

And they have the highest population of people living into their hundreds. It’s in this right now. There’s other factors there. They’re these tiny little Italian people. So, you know, you don’t see many, listen. I know I’m not long for this planet. You’re not going to, you don’t see these many, six, five 95 year olds walking around.

So provide the larger, you are probably the lower expect to see you’re going to have, because your heart’s got to work hard and all that. So there is something to be said for these tiny little Italians living in this really relaxed environment, they walk everywhere. They lower their consumption of red meat. They’re only doing it once a week. They’re still eating pastas and breads and drinking wine. So they have that moderation, but they also have less toxicity and less stress their grains haven’t been, you know, ruined, they use similar. So all that to be said is that. I agree with you that if I have chili once or I’ve have red meat once or twice a week.

Sure. I think someone who has it once a week is probably better off than someone who has a twice a week. Long-term. But generally, if you’re doing all these other things, exercise meditation, yoga, then it’s probably your body’s still going to be able to handle it more so than somebody who doesn’t have diverse microbiome doesn’t do all those other things. Yeah. Then I think there, that cheeseburger is going to be more detrimental to the house. So we always get back to moderation, but you also got to know what works best for you because when people are going through our protocol and they do the elimination reduction, I can tell you probably 15% to 20% of the people that go through it realize that their body doesn’t react well to beef.

And it doesn’t mean they’ll never have it again, but

Erin O’Hearn:  no, I understand. It was just a question I had. And also lastly, can tequila be an anti-inflammatory?

Bill Ferro:  I think tequila is the most underrated alcohol out there. It’s great. On the rocks, it goes down the same way he came in, if it has to leave. So you know where it’s going.

Erin O’Hearn:  That happened on the handstand.

Bill Ferro:  You know, I think that majority of people, if you’re going to have alcohol, if the treat it like a dessert buy a good one, and I say the same thing about dairy. If you’re going to have cheese, get a really good high quality cheese something, yeah.

Erin O’Hearn:  Get 12 month age manchego, don’t get, don’t get Cracker barrel.

Bill Ferro:  And don’t get the one that starts with the G because no one can say it properly. And they always sound silly.

Erin O’Hearn:  Oh, gruyere? I can say it. Right. I love gruyere.

Bill Ferro:  I love it but if I have to pick it and I have to say it out loud, just like, keep chatting,

Erin O’Hearn:  just say the French cheese.

Bill Ferro:  Yeah, the French one. So wrapping up, what is your favorite red wine?

Erin O’Hearn:  Oh, well cabernet.

Bill Ferro:  Cabernet. And what brand would you do? You have a go-to brand. Okay.

Erin O’Hearn:  See, I’m not as picky. Like I really like. Just well, Justin is picky. So I really liked Justin. I really like, like for an everyday wine decoys is really good and I do enjoy the organic wines. I just it’s, I’m not in charge of ordering a wine for my household. So I can’t, I’ve got to convince the small Italian guy to focus more on the organic, but Cabernet Cabernet is by far my favorite. I do not like, Pinot Noir..

Bill Ferro:  I wonder if most of our listeners have a small Italian guy in their homes, responsible for ordering the wine, get in. Everybody has a small Italian guy that’s responsible. That should,


Erin O’Hearn:  should be, especially, especially since you know that you can count on him for a long time because they’re their lifespan clearly as longer. So I don’t have to worry. For a long, long time that somebody where’s my wine

Bill Ferro:  to scale this instead of an Alexa, that’s this tall, we have a Salvador.

Erin O’Hearn:  He’s rubbing olive oil on his skin.

Bill Ferro:  Exactly. Well, what a great episode. I appreciate everybody coming here. So this article is on eat. This, not that. So it’s eat and it’s the surprising effects on wine and gut. And as yousaid Erin,  I think will make people crazy going back and forth.

Erin O’Hearn:  Well, clearly the person who wrote it was drunk,

Bill Ferro:  this wine’s killing me.

Erin O’Hearn:  That’s exactly what I’m like. There is no coherency, sorry. It’s fine. Keeps us all guessing.

Bill Ferro:  Well, as you know, this podcast is sponsored by and we want to let our members know it’s okay to drink wine once in a while. That’s what our takeaway has been today, and it can be healthy for your gut, but if it’s not healthy for your gut, it’s healthy for your mind and your meditation, and let’s face it.

Most of us like you better when you’re drinking.

Erin. Thank you very much. I want to thank our listeners to listening to the quacks and hypochondriacs podcasts. If you like the show, which of course you do. Why wouldn’t you, especially with Erin as the host, be sure to rate us review, subscribe to all the things that help us and help you find the show in the next episode comes out and don’t forget to visit our sponsor betr BTR

And this episode was edited and produced byEarfluence..God,don’t you just love the people at Earfluence..

Erin O’Hearn:  Yes. I love them and I love, I love when they drink wine too.

Bill Ferro:  Yes, the next episode, we should drink wine. We should have and bring, bring a little Italian guy Salvador. So this is Erin O’Hearn and Dr. Bill Ferro.. We’ll see you next time on quacks and quacks.That’s the new name? Quacks and the quacks and hypochondriacs podcast. Thank you all. Have a great one.

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Quacks and Hypochondriacs is hosted by Dr Bill Ferro and Caitlin Brauner, and is produced by Earfluence.

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