What keeps you up at night & leaving an industry better than you found it: Conversations with Sisters

Does the fear of failure keep you up at night?  How about the fear of being a bad boss?  Have you ever wondered if you’re leaving your industry in a better place than you found it?

On today’s Conversations with Sisters, Dana Kadwell and Courtney Hopper talk candidly about these questions and more.

If you haven’t listened to the conversation with Palm Sunday‘s Lauren Jennings, it’s the episode before this one, on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast app.

Transcript

Dana: Welcome to Hustle and Gather, a podcast about inspiring the everyday entrepreneur to take the leap. I’m Dana,

Courtney: and I’m Courtney,

Dana: and we’re two sisters who love business. On this show, we talk about the ups and downs with the hustle and the reward at the end of the journey

Courtney: And we know all the challenges that come with starting a business. Between operating our wedding venue, doing speaking and consulting, and starting our luxury wedding planning company, we wake up and hustle every day.

And today we’re talking, just the two of us, about last week’s episode with Lauren Jennings, owner of Palm Sunday, an in-house handmade bespoke jewelry brand specializing in rings of intention. If you haven’t heard last week’s episode, go give it a listen and come back to hear our thoughts.

Dana: All right, Court let’s get started.

Courtney: Let’s go start her with her statement, which I we’ve heard over and over again, that you are your own worst critic, which I think is true. Like, you always think worse of yourself than other people think of you, not that many people tell you that.

Dana: No, it’s true. They could think, I could say what I feel, and then people be like, yeah, I do think that about you.

Courtney: Well, sometimes you do that and I’m like, I do actually think that about you.

Dana: Yeah, thank you.

Courtney: You’re welcome.

Dana: What’s your thing that you say to yourself while you’re your own worst critic?

Courtney: My own worst critic, I don’t know, I guess that I’m like super like scatterbrained, like I can’t carry something through from beginning to end. Like I’m not going to complete anything, right. And then I think sometimes I deal with like, Imposter syndrome, like who am I to tell somebody what they should or shouldn’t be doing? Or like, I think I deal with that as well.

Dana: Yeah. I don’t know. Sometimes for me, I feel like I’m a terrible friend, because I feel like I am not always one to initiate like the text or to like reach out to somebody. And then like, I get so busy and I think sometimes I think that I’m too busy to like, have relationships with people and I, it makes me seem kind of like a jerk in a lot of ways.

Courtney: you feel like you’re a jerk, as it pertains to people who call themselves your friend?

Dana: Yeah. No, I do feel that way sometimes. And I, and I know like, I’m there for friends. Some, I don’t know. Maybe I’m not, maybe I’m just rambling.

Courtney: Please leave a comment if you are Dana’s friend to let us know. A rating 1-10.

Dana: I do. I feel like I come across as I’m so busy that I don’t have time for people.

Courtney: So, what you think is other people think that you have like a, a heightened sense of self-importance?

Dana: Yeah, and I think people think that about me because I’m just, like I said, I’m not normally one to initiate and I, and I go on spurts where I’ll like text a friend or, you know, think about them.

And I try to text them saying I’m thing about them, but most of the time they’re texting me first and I feel really terrible every time. I’m like, oh, I shouldn’t have been the one that texted you. You texted me last time.

Courtney: Maybe the problem is you have too many friends.

Dana: No, I don’t really have that many friends.

Courtney:   I’m just saying if you just have one or two, it’s really easy to keep up with the one or two. I know this experience.

Dana: Yeah, I don’t know. But I, I do think that about myself when it comes to like personal things.

Courtney: I think that was way deeper than what I said.

Dana: Well, I’m a deeper person than you, so that’s fine.

Courtney: But go back circle back to that self-importance comments. But no, I definitely think, especially when you’re putting something out there, I could imagine, like, in Lauren’s perspective, like in that creative space, you would to be super critical of like product and what you’re putting out there. And I think her stuff is beautiful.

Dana: It is beautiful.

Courtney: It’s so creative, and I love it.

Dana: It’s not cookie cutter either. It’s not like, like there are some pieces I don’t love, but there’s pieces that I love, and I really liked that because there’s a range of things. It doesn’t appeal to just like one kind of person, you know,

Courtney: I actually have one of her rings. It’s like one of my favorite rings.

Dana: Yeah, I don’t have one. I’m trying to get my husband by one. I’m just going to buy one for Mother’s Day if he doesn’t. So that’s fine. Although I want to wait until Santa Maria comes out because there’s a specific green one, I like love. There’s a little half-moon on it.

Courtney: Oh, I do love that one. Going to buy it before you,

Dana: You totally would. That’s like such a jackass thing to do. it’s like keeping up with the Jones’ is over here.

Courtney: I don’t care about the Jones’. It’s all about annoying your sister.

Dana: moving on, you are going to annoy me. Okay. So, getting back to it, I also loved when she said this day, a comment, it said, and she was talking about kind of like her turning point in the fashion industry. Like when she realized she couldn’t sleep at night, that she knew that she was like doing the wrong thing or wasn’t where she needed to be.

And it made me think, was there anything that’s kept me up at night where I couldn’t sleep. That was my fault.

Courtney: Yeah, yeah. I mean, there’s lots of things business wise that kept me up at night that I couldn’t sleep.

Dana: Right, but I mean like more of, because I felt like I was in, maybe in the wrong, or it was something that I knew I needed to fix, you know?

Courtney: Yeah. I feel like most of those times, for me revolve around our relationship.

Dana: Yeah?

Courtney: Yeah. Like where I feel like I’m in the wrong or I’m feeling defensive or like strangely enough, like my relationship with my husband doesn’t keep me up at night. But I can just sleep on sleep on that. that right? but as it pertains to like our partnership, I’ve had many moments where it’s like eating away at me.

Dana: Yeah, I can agree with that. I think to me that’s more, it’s not necessarily like business stuff. It’s more sometimes personal things that have be in a way at me than like business things. Like I remember when,

Courtney: but you can’t separate it.

Dana: No, no, no, but I mean, it’s not because like you weren’t doing something in business or I wasn’t doing my job well enough that like it was kept me up at night. It was more like personal relational things, like I remember, it was like right around the time you were, when you were pregnant with Liam is right around the time you went to therapy, like soon after Liam was born.

So, as you all can imagine, the relationship was super strained, and I was just annoyed at everything. Everything, it just bothered me about like, having, cause you’d have all these kids. I’d have all the kids, all the time, cause you were still working you were still teaching,

Courtney: When I was pregnant?

Dana: Yes. When you’re pregnant. So, I’ll have all the kids. I had to pick all of them up from preschool. I mean, I would take them to Lowe’s and stick them on one of those like, just like carts that had like the flatbeds, the palette carts, we’d get Wendy’s, we’d called it a moving picnic because I’d have to get shit from Lowe’s. And I had all these damn children and I was just like annoyed.

Like I was so annoyed by everything and everything bothered me. And I remember thinking I had been there for Mason’s birth, had been there for Nora’s birth. You’d been at both my kids’ birth, and I remember telling Sam, I was like, I just don’t even care about being there for Liam, because it just bothered me that I think I had to work through a lot of like anger and frustration that you got pregnant in the first place.

I love Liam dearly. Don’t get me wrong. And I remember it was like multiple nights in a row. I think it was after I said this out loud to Sam and I, I just, I couldn’t sleep at night and he’s like, what’s keeping you up. I was like, I think I really do want to be there, and I feel really bad that I had like this really negative attitude about this baby, like, who’s not going to love a baby? you know, like, and he was a great little baby and I did love that baby.

And I did make it. Yeah, I almost, I almost thought I wasn’t going to make it one time. She had like a scare, but I mean I remember thinking like the way I feel about this is going to jeopardize it. I’m going to regret it for the rest of my life that I missed one of the children’s births.

Courtney: Yeah. That’s true. We were all, both at all of the children’s births.

Dana: We were.

Courtney: Yeah. I mean, not that was a tough time. We didn’t plan on getting pregnant. It just happened to us, came from the baby factory. That’s me, obviously

Dana: Yes.

Courtney: The baby factory. I don’t know, like, I guess for me, for us, what not sleeping at night, like business is so personal. And so, for us, it’s like, even like the next level personal, because your business partners, your sister, there’s, you know, lots of history and feelings.

Dana: But there’s a difference about inconveniencing yourself and your family and feeling like you’re inconveniencing somebody else. So, like, even for me, like what pushes me hard in a lot of things is it’s not, it’s not just me. Like if I F-up my life, like that’s on me, but if I F this up, it’s a lot of at the time it was like your life too.

Right, so there was a lot of pressure that it wasn’t just me making mistakes, it was making mistakes that would negatively impact you and your family, and I think that’s a lot of it. I think that’s where a lot of it comes from, I would assume speaking for you that there’s just this fear of messing up because it’s not, it’s not just you.

Courtney: But it’s always not just been me. Like, it’s always been the nine of us, right. For a brief moment. It was the eight of us, then it was the nine of us. And so like, yeah, you have all those ramifications. I mean, but I think that every time I, previous to 2020, I’d get a negative review, or like, I know I didn’t do the best job that I could.

Dana: Sure, totally.

Courtney: Like I do have guilt.

Dana: There’s always a nugget of truth. In every negative review, there is a nugget of truth,

Courtney: Which I hate that.

Dana: Which if the nugget of truth is extremely over-exaggerated. I mean, yes, a lot of times it is, but there is still something where you can look at and be like, huh, I should have done that differently. You know, our most recent, I say recent, they were like a year ago, review this because we didn’t walk away and we should’ve walked away. There was a nugget of truth that I was not going to serve you well, I knew it.

Courtney: Because you were so afraid of the backlash, and at the end, the outcome was the same.

Dana: Right. And I should have said, I am not going to, I’m not going to reach your expectations. And that’s, and I put that on my shoulders. That was my fault.

Courtney: Yeah, no, I totally think that.

Dana: But it is hard. I think too, when you’re the owner a little bit different, like we were talking about how business is so personal, it’s so hard to separate yourself.

And I totally feel her, like why I don’t feel her because we’re not in this quite the same industry, but like when she’s talking about people knocking off her stuff, like I would be furious, like beyond furious if I was like, I like put all my energy and all my creative juices and I made this ring and then I see it like being sold cheaper somewhere else.

Courtney: Thank God you’re not trying to sell stuff on Instagram. You would just be one ball of anger.

Dana: Yeah. I do feel that way, like, but I, because it is such an, like, I can imagine when you’re talking about someone like a super creative like that, like they’re literally creating art and it’s one of the kinds of things that you’ve put so much thought and, time, energy and time, and you’ve been thoughtful and where you’ve gotten your stone or gotten your gold. And then someone’s like, oh, I can sell it for half off because it’s, you know, not as well made or I’d have to spend all the design time doing it because I just looked at yours.

Courtney: Yeah. And I just got a cheaper stone and yeah, unethical gold, which I know nothing about I think about that either. I don’t even know about gold mining, but it sounds unethical.

Dana: Yeah. But do you, but do you ever feel that way, like in our business, when something’s been super personal and you’ve been like super offended, I know my answer.

Courtney: Like someone asks for something and it was personal?

Dana: Not ask for something or other, we were talking about that where you have like, and because you say all the time, Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and I just find it to be offensive. I don’t find it flattering. I find it offensive.

Courtney: Yeah. I mean I, here like, I don’t like it when someone’s like, I’m opening a venue. Can I see a copy of your contract? I’m like that contract has taken me years and thousands of dollars with my attorney to make. So, no, I’m actually not going to hand that contract to you. Like, if you want to talk about like, how do you word your force majeure? Sure, I’ll help you with that.

Dana: And we’ve shared like with industry friends, like friends, like people that like are genuinely,

Courtney: That have a relationship with us

Dana: and like, we were talking to them as a friend and they’re telling us something and we’re like, hey, we have something that we, I think will really work for you. Especially friends that are dealing with contractors, like we’ve shared our contractor contract before, right?

Courtney: Yeah, I mean, it’s one thing to have an industry friend, right, and for them to ask, cause I mean, I’ve asked my industry friend how did this person handle this? How should I handle this? Or like, what’s the protocol here? Should we implement that protocol at the Bradford?

But they’re like, actually my friend, I’m not looking to them to ask this question or to fake a relationship for an answer. I’ve had years of a relationship and I know they’re not trying to get anything for it, but oftentimes as a venue or as a business, people just reach out to you and ask you for information on processes, procedures, or contracts or whatever.

And they don’t know you from Adam or they ran into you one time. You’re like, I’m not going to share that. We don’t have a relationship for that.

Dana: Yeah, no. So, this was actually a new story that happened this week.

Courtney: New story.

Dana: So, we, this is like October, 2019, me and the Bradford girls all went to this class on hospitality, and it was really, really great, and one of the things we learned is we needed to have a very solid, like mission statement.

Courtney: Like a tagline.

Dana: It’s not even a tagline. It’s more like a service statement, a service, like how, what do we view our service as? So, we sat in that room, hold up for hours and hours and hours.

We tossed words around. We like created phrases. We slept on and we came back to it and we created what we felt like was the heart of the Bradford. Like, because it was really important to us that these words were inclusive, that they like showcase what me and Courtney really wanted. Like what I envisioned behind everything was.

Super proud of it. So, then we put it out into the atmosphere, right? It’s on our website

Courtney: On our website and Instagram.

Dana: Right, but we, but we use it often, like is literally every single SOP has that mission statement on it. So, whenever an employee is trying to figure out what to do, they’re rerouted back to the fact that this is what we believe in.

Every action should be pointing back to this. Is the heart of our service, right? So, I’m like randomly scrolling one day and someone posted something and it was literally our tagline, the exact same thing. And I know this person and I was like; this does not make sense. Like this person would not do this at all.

Like, so I just assumed that it was like an ill-trained employee, right, that didn’t, they didn’t understand the protocol about copying copy, right. And so, I just was really kind send an email and of course I wrote, and she was like super embarrassed.

She was like, oh my God, I’m so sorry. I had no idea. This is all from a person that was planning our open house.

Courtney: Right.

Dana: And I was like, oh, okay. That’s weird. But it was like word for word.

Courtney: It was word for word.

Dana: It wasn’t even like a gist, and its gist would have annoyed me too, to be honest, but like,

Courtney: A gist would have been more acceptable.

Dana: but it would have been more acceptable, but it was literally word for word.

Courtney: It was like, take out our venue name, put this venue name in, same exact couple of sentences.

Dana: The owner was like was on it right away. Took it down, you know, whatever. And, you know, shared like it wasn’t intentional,

Courtney: But this person was literally stealing your heart.

Dana: That’s what it felt like. And then they didn’t even admit to it. They made this whole story about how they got it from some SEO in California. And so, I Googled the whole statement and it shows up nowhere, but our website,

Courtney: And their Eventbrite

Dana: There’s no way. There’s no way that she got that any other place in ours. but what’s so frustrating about it is, like truly it’s the honesty of it, right. Just be honest, like yeah, dude, I did totally, that was, I didn’t think about it or I was wrong of me or whatever, like, I’m sorry. Like own it.

Courtney: I was feeling creatively stifled at the moment.

Dana: Then I would have been like, I understand take it down. Don’t do it again. But like case closed, move on, right? But then someone’s lying to you about it and then it feels even more personal. And you’re like, why do I care about these words so much?

Like, why do I care? But I think it totally like Lauren hit, like hit the nail on the head that it’s just so, it’s just such an extension of who you are and you can’t, it’s so hard to separate yourself from it.

Courtney: I think small businesses like that. I liked how she talked about how you can really find what fills you up, like what kind of like sets you on fire. And it’s still a struggle how she said her oh shit moment happens every day. And I feel that way, like 100%, like, I feel like when you’re in the middle of it and you’re like doing what you’re doing. even though you might think you’re a bad-ass, you turn the corner and something knocked you down a peg, you know, it’s still a struggle.

Dana: Totally true.

Courtney:  I feel like, I mean, we can talk about this because this kind current topic is we’ve to extricate ourselves from the day-to-day of which is just like proving be impossible, literally impossible. Even today, talking to employees, I felt like I haven’t been a great manager because I’m like still stuck in the mud. like, I know logically, like I can’t be stuck the mud and be a good manager, but yet I can’t get myself out of the mud.

Like it’s still a struggle, even though I feel like I am a good manager and we have a great team and they’re super loyal and people are here for a very long time and things are going well. And a lot of ways, it still makes feel like managerial fraud.

Dana: Right, but, and really what it comes down to is, like, I don’t say this to be like egotistical, but I think it’s because we’re good bosses. Like I think that,

Courtney: yeah, we’re bad bosses. I just said that.

Dana: No, no, no. But the reason why we’re stuck in the mud is because we’re working one of our employees’ maternities right now. It’s because when any client had an issue last year, we would take on the wedding. So, we, we have more on our plates and we have ever had because we are working, and we’re working jobs, we’re not familiar with, like, it’s not like, you know, Courtney is doing leads and we completely changed how we did that.

There’s like a spreadsheet and everything. And Courtney is like, what the hell is this? Like I used to just like send this email, that was it right? There’s a whole thing, and there’s a whole thing for a reason. It’s the reason why we’re successful is because we have these processes and systems and we’re trying to do our best, but it is like a constant, like, it’s just, it’s just constant right now.

The Bradford’s growing so fast that we’re trying to also like, keep a handle on that, which is great, and like training new team members. And then we have to ask ourselves some really hard questions because there’s a lot of times, you know, we look at it and we’re like, are we making this decision because it’s a good business decision or make a decision because we really care about this person. And it’s hard to find the middle ground with that.

Courtney: Yeah. But I liked, but that totally resonated with me just especially today where it’s like, I mean, I love our business. I love where it’s going. I love what it’s afforded. I love all those things. I didn’t care about everybody that works for me, but it’s still a struggle.

I feel like getting back to like one of our past episodes, I think it was Megan, who’s like, you never feel like you make it. Oh my God. But if you never feel like you make it.

Dana: But I think that’s true. Unless you’re like, oh, I don’t even know. I don’t even know what a major corporation, CDO

Courtney: We’re going to post back on that when we’ve made it.

Dana: I definitely, I definitely felt that deeply. Like, and I thought I loved her like honesty and vulnerability with that, because I think that’s lacking because I think sometimes all you see on Instagram and social media and like when people like how you’re like, I think it’s great.

This is great. Everything’s wonderful. And I’m like, yeah, business is good. Everything is wonderful. But dude, I had like the shittiest day to day because I had to deal with all this crap.

It was like Ada, the other day was talking to Courtney about how at the hour I come home, I just bitch about, she didn’t use the word bitch.

Courtney: I remember she like, you know, that hour when mom comes home and just like, kind of complains about her day and dad’s trying to talk her off the ledge, but she’s not having it. But then she makes this funny laugh in the middle of that. So, you know oh no, she’s going over the edge. And she knows the laugh and I was like, Ada do the laugh for me, she did the laugh.

And I was like, that’s very akin to the wicked witch of the west, you know? Like, I’ll get you my little pretty, maybe she’s related. And then Ada looked at me and was like, that means you’re related if she’s the wicked witch of the west. And I was like, I don’t know, maybe I’m Glenda the good witch. And she said, you’re not the good witch, but I was like, yes, I do know that hour.

Dana: Right. That’s my 11-year-old. She feels it that like, obviously I love what I do, but I, it’s still a struggle every day. There’s still something that’s a struggle.

Courtney: Well, I think it’s great that you have Sam as like an outside processor to it. Cause sometimes I feel like your emotions aren’t validated here.

Dana: They’re not, they are validated at home. I have a good man. He was like, you should be pissed about that. And I’m like, I know I should be angry about this. Thank you.

Courtney: You’re probably like all my sister said was imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Dana: That’s literally just what I said. I was like, should I be mad about this? He’s like, yes, those are your words. He’s like, and you need to set a standard that people can’t just copy you. And I’m like, you’re right. People can’t just copy me.

Courtney: But so funny if I could just like see this whole conversation. Yeah.

Dana: it’s true. Oh Lord.

Courtney: I loved how, when she was stuck, and I wish I would have WOOFed at some point in my life, actually like in my early twenties. One, we should set up a WOOF for the event industry. Please come to New Hill. I will give you food and shelter. think it would work? No. Okay

I loved how, when she. Was kind of like, I don’t want to do this. What am I going to do with my life? She like took a step back and she traveled and she said, it allows you to kind of see where you fit in the world especially when you’re traveling, it gets out of your comfort zone, which is true. Like it gets you out of your, like normal and you are put into kind of like uncomfortable situations that are good exhilarating, but uncomfortable.

And where do you think you would to travel to, to kind of like clear your head and see where you fit in world?

Dana: You know, I’ve actually, I’ve always wanted to go to Australia. I think it’s beautiful and I think it’d be super interesting. Like, I don’t know. I thought there would be that or, or I could totally do like a form of Europe again, like Greece, Spain haven’t been anywhere there, but I spent some time in Italy and I loved that and I felt like that was super grounding.

I realized how young America really was when you saw the, like so much history and how, like, I don’t know, it was really a big turning point for me because I just, I realized how wrong we were about so many things, you know, being around true culture.

Courtney: a of options. I’ve watched that, I guess it’s a documentary with Sam Heugan, and they’re doing like a cross country trip around Scotland, which looks amazing actually with like some amazing food. And it made like it’s like water, ocean, mountain, pasture all at the same time. I thought that that seemed super interesting. And maybe everybody looks like Sam Heugan over there. So that would be good.

Dana: Easy on the eyes.

Courtney: Super cute. I don’t know, like maybe somewhere like, like Asia, like Thailand, like that kind of area I think would be super out of your comfort zone.

Dana: Thailand does look amazing.

Courtney: Yeah. But it would be like, like a super, other worldly, their country experience. think that you would really grow and learn.

Dana: I don’t know. I think that’s been the hardest thing of 2020 is just not traveling. We’re going nowhere. And then like, I guess I do feel like every time you go and you meet new people, like it just, it expands so much of your point of view of the world.

Like even going within the country, like even going out and like going to New York or going to Cincinnati or going to Vegas, it’s crazy how different people are just in different states. It’s also very like, kind of rounds out what you view your view of people.

Courtney: Looking forward to travelling.

Dana:  me too. I also really, I really admired how she recognized that she needed to kind of a reset, taking the summer off to kind of reset her business model, finding, you know, how to source metal ethically and stones and all that stuff. So, she had felt really confident that she was doing it the right way.

And I really admire that because I think it’s hard for a lot of business owners to say, I’m going to do a reset. Like I’m going to take a month, two months. Like I can’t even, I cannot even imagine it.

Courtney: I mean, I’m going to take that actually. I haven’t told you yet. I’m taking 2 months off in June and July.

Dana: not going to happen, but I mean, I just can’t imagine it, but knowing, but knowing that that’s what her business needs to thrive in the future. Like having the discernment for that I think is really well, it’s just really amazing.

Courtney: Lauren, I’m going to go work for you.

Dana: I know. I know. And I, the last thing we’ll say that I thought was really amazing that like got me really thinking, and I don’t even know if I have answers. But, her connection to how she was saying how. The metal, the goal that she like recycled gold, right.

She felt like was the right thing to do because you’re recycling. You’re not using getting new metal. That’s, you know, unethically mined, but it didn’t really change the community of it. Right. And she felt like it was a form of avoidance and I was like a super powerful.

Courtney: yeah. I know. There’s a lot to unpack there. That feels like a whole episode.

Dana: There is, but I really got me thinking about, is there anything in the industry that we have avoidance for that we try to fix maybe between like our business, but we aren’t making a bigger impact on the community to change as a whole?

Courtney: for sure. I mean, I think a great example of that in our industry is that venue that’s recently come under a lot of scrutiny. They were even on WRL for not allowing same sex couples to get married. And their point was that they have love for everybody. Right? It’s not that they don’t love these people.

It’s not that they don’t want them to get married. They just have certain personal and religious beliefs that they feel like prevents them from getting married at their space or prevents them from allowing them to get married at their space. And I feel like that’s totally avoidance. It’s like saying, like, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with you doing what you’re going to do, but it’s not going to change what I do.

You know what I mean? It’s not going to change my actions. And just felt like, I don’t know the way that they handled it was almost placating but not really addressing issue of like, yeah, well maybe I should rethink my thoughts on this or my religious views on this, or they weren’t even open to seeing an outside opinion.

Dana: Right. Well, I mean, that’s another day thing to unpack there, but I, I feel like for when I heard that, all I could think of is it’s just hypocritical. I mean, do they like, do they not allow Jewish weddings there do not allow Indian weddings there?

Like they don’t follow the same Christian beliefs. Like, do they allow people who are remarried? Like, do you know what I mean?

Courtney: all of these things were brought up in the comments of Instagram before it was shutdown. So, I don’t know how it all ended.

Dana: but the answer is no, the answer is they do allow those things because it’s, and this is where I got in a conversation with somebody about it.

Courtney: but just to say that, that you, like, I love these people and I care about these people and I think God loves them and all those things, but yet I don’t think that they are deserving of having marriage or use my space is a weird avoidance type thing.

Dana: It is. I agree. I think it’s sad. I think it is sad for those people. Like the people who own, I just feel sorry for them to own the venue because they’re missing out on a great community of people. But, you know, I just, I feel like it’s one of those things where it has nothing to do with doctrine. It has nothing to do with even Christianity. It’s just their own comfort level. Like, let’s just be honest about it.

Courtney: Yeah. it sounds like to me, like bringing it back to Lauren, like she was like, well, I’m using recycled gold. I’m not using this unethically mine go up. And then at the end of the day, she’s like, I’m really even just by using recycled gold and I’m not buying from the people that are unethically mining, or again, I don’t know anything about gold mining, but that doesn’t affect any Change.  It’s how I really can change it is by spending my dollars on people who are doing this the right way. Right. And kind of exiting out this, like rolling, going to buy from you if you’re doing this in an ethical way. And if more and more of the jewelry industry buys or people who are doing it ethically, it will bring everybody else line.

Dana: Yeah. I mean, I, I totally feel like that. And I feel like in the industry, like on another token of it, it, to me it’s, and maybe this is just true for entrepreneurs and not just, you know, the industry in general, but I feel like it’s kind of like what the podcast is about.

Right. Like, I feel like there’s just, there’s no truth. And being a business owner, there’s either like the silly hyperbolic things, right. Or there’s, it’s wonderful and perfect. And I put my job and I made six figures the next week. That’s just not reality. And I feel like the more people talk about it, like the more it can, you can change the community of people.

Right? Like last night we were at the, at a launch party and we were, I was talking to somebody and I was saying how we were, we were working with this with a similar vendor. And I was like, yeah, I really loved working with them. They were very kind. And she was like, I love that you use that adjective because they are very kind people and kindness is so important and so important in business.

And, you know, and she’s like, and there’s people who are so mean and so unkind to you when you’re, when you’re in any industry. And she’s like, I don’t know why we don’t talk about more, like, why don’t we talk about how mean people like really are toxic people in this industry. And I was like, well, because it’s, it’s not PC.

Like if you’re going to call them out for being me, because you think that’s where your next meal is going to come from, you know? And she’s like, yeah. But if you talked about and you held people accountable to it, like, would it change? Yeah.

I don’t know what to change, but are you just, are you just, again, avoiding it by saying like, I want to be a kind person, but I’m not actually trying to change the way that we interact with each other.

Courtney: Yeah. Good point.

Dana: I don’t know. So, I really love that. It got me really thinking about it. I’m showing everything you bought it for like days.

Courtney: she might not sleep.

Dana: I might not sleep, it’s possible. No, but I loved it. I thought Lauren was really great. I love that. She followed her heart. I love that she followed her like, like really had a deep connection to what her ethics were.

Oh my gosh. It just, it makes you feel almost like, am I doing the same thing? Like, I feel like not as like, I don’t want to say she makes you feel like a bad person. That’s not what I want to say, but it makes you like question yourself,

Courtney: like, am I a self-actualized person?

Dana: or am I that strong in who I am? Yeah. To ethically say I’m not going to do this no matter what.

Courtney: I think sometimes. Yes.

Dana: Yeah. Sometimes no.

Courtney: I thought she was great. I think, you know, Lauren, if you’re out there and the ring thing doesn’t work out, you could be a word Smith. Cause you have a great way of like putting together thoughts that are tangible and beautifully said.

Right. So yeah. Loved it. Yeah. Cheers to you.

Courtney: Thanks everyone for gathering with us today to talk about the hustle. To learn more about Lauren Jennings and her business Palm Sunday, visit palm-sunday.com or follow her on Instagram at @palm__sunday.

Dana: And to learn more about our hustles visit canddevents.com, thebradfordnc.com, and hustleandgather.com or follow us on Instagram @canddevents, @thebradfordnc, and @hustleandgather. If you liked the show, be sure to subscribe and leave us a rating and a review.

Courtney: This podcast is a production of Earfluence. I’m Courtney,

Dana: and I’m Dana,

Courtney: And we’ll talk to you next time on Hustle and Gather

Full Episode Transcript

Hustle and Gather is hosted by Courtney Hopper and Dana Kadwell, and is produced by Earfluence.  Courtney and Dana’s hustles include C&D Events, Hustle and Gather, and The Bradford Wedding Venue.

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