Courtney Hopper: Ask your business partner, I think that is true, you probably do take a little bit more personal if it’s good or bad.

Dana Kadwell: Right.

Courtney Hopper: I think for me, I’m like more married to like, the concept of something than the actual implementation of it. For an idea. It’s more like this is the general idea. But it’s not like fully fleshed out like how this gets executed. I’m not married to but I think this is the general direction or this is the grand idea, if that makes sense. But it’s all the little things that I like, don’t pertain.

Dana Kadwell: I don’t think that I overly care about the execution at the end goal is the same. 

Courtney Hopper: Yeah. 

Dana Kadwell: I don’t really feel that strongly. Like I mean…

Courtney Hopper: That’s one idea that you’ve had in our business that you were like, this is an amazing idea and it just sucked. 

Dana Kadwell: I mean, I guess like most recently as probably going through this hiring guide, like I did some research on it. And I created a template for it in Canva, we put together and…

Courtney Hopper: It’s possible, we might have to redo the whole thing. 

Dana Kadwell: Well, I mean, we’d have to redo the content, the contents there, which is what took the most time was creating the content, it wasn’t hard to stick it into a template, like that wasn’t like the hard thing. Like the words are there. The ideas are there, the structures there. 

Courtney Hopper: Speak for yourself. 

Dana Kadwell: But the execution of it was just a lot of it was just limited, my limited knowledge to be truthful. But I wasn’t upset about it. And when they’re like, Oh, this isn’t gonna work. I was like, kind of like, well, that’s kind of annoying. But I wasn’t like I don’t want to push forward with it. Because I feel so strongly about this template, it’s going to be successful because I’m hearing someone say this isn’t going to be successful if you’re gonna have more questions in the end. And there’s definitely like a, that sucks that I wasn’t right about that. But I wasn’t upset that it wasn’t right about it. I was glad that someone was guiding me in the right way. 

Courtney Hopper: Yeah

Dana Kadwell: But I’ve always felt that way about ideas like, I do love the ideas that I have. And I want to try them. But I feel like if we’ve tried them or if we have an outside opinion coming in and saying this isn’t gonna work, because I’ve tried this and X, Y, Z and here’s a better path to it. I don’t have a problem letting it go. Like I really don’t if I feel like we’ve done it I have a problem with when we have an idea. And then we have acid and someone says that was a terrible idea. I’m like, well, you don’t know it was a terrible idea because you freakin half assed executed it, so it could be a great idea. And it could not be a great idea.

Courtney Hopper: Right. With poor execution. 

Dana Kadwell: Right. So and I think that for me like execution issues for me always comes down to money. To me, there’s multiple things, are you is it not executed well, because of maybe it’s the marketing, maybe it’s how you’re selling it, whatever the case may be, or it comes down to a price? And so there’s too many variables to figure out where is the breakdown happening. And I always go to price first, when I don’t think that’s necessarily correct. But like when I think about like our Luxury Collection at the Bradford, think about that sell, think about how we’re doing that. And I understand the reason why we why the price is what it is. But I firmly believe that’s the reason why it won’t get booked the year will not be booked out. 

Courtney Hopper: Well, yeah, but I think price equates to value. 

Dana Kadwell: I know, but it’s hard. Because if you don’t believe in it, and like the people selling it don’t really believe in the value of it. 

Courtney Hopper: It’s hard to believe.

Dana Kadwell: It’s hard to sell it, right

Courtney Hopper: Right, for sure.

Dana Kadwell: It’s hard to sell something that hasn’t happened yet. Like, you’re like we have this product, be the first one to spend all this money on this product. You know what I mean?

Courtney Hopper: I’m also curious to like when she has an idea. And she’s like, Okay, we’re gonna try this for a week or that for a week. Like, if I’m on the fence as to whether or not something’s going to work. Already, I’m kind of like, I’m not going to put my full into it just be had to fail.

Dana Kadwell: That’s really hard to do. But she, that session I went to was a lot about like AB testing. So they would have two ads going at the same time. And then they would determine who like was this ‘A’ better ‘B’ better. And then once they figure that out, then they put more energy into that path. So there’s like multiple things like you’re doing like full on marketing campaign campaigns, and not knowing how it’s going to. And there’s like a lot of like testing that goes around? And kind of like what she was saying like finding, you know, what are your people saying? Like, what should your message be? What is your story? How are you storytelling? And, you know, putting bits of it out there and seeing how people are reacting to it. And then once you have some data on how people are reacting to it, you can kind of create that full story. 

Courtney Hopper: Yeah. 

Dana Kadwell: I really loved your idea. And I never even thought about it was to look at your competitors negative reviews. So people are saying to that, and like she made some, she kind of started talking about it how, you know, you look at what you do best. You look at what your competitors passage said, let them have that slice of pie. Like give them that. Where is the gap? And can you fill that gap well? And I loved that idea of looking at, okay, this is who I consider a competitor. And I’m seeing on their reviews that they don’t have a venue supervisor or venue concierge or whatever the case may be. And you know, saying but we do that and like accepting that and making sure people recognize that this is how we’re different. 

Courtney Hopper: That’s great advice.

Dana Kadwell: That’s great advice, but then also really made me think about because when I’m analyzing it and something it doesn’t necessarily have to be and I think that this is truly valuable. And when she’s talking about analyzing your competition, it doesn’t even have to be competition. It could just be a business that you maybe don’t like, and asking yourself, like, why don’t you like that person? Like, what are they missing in the market that you can learn from? And I feel that a lot in my personal life. It’s like I come across somebody who rubs me the wrong way. And I’m like, why do they rubbed me the wrong way? Like, is that a trait, is it because I do that? And I’m seeing into myself.

Courtney Hopper: I do think sometimes that’s the case is something’s rubbing you the wrong way because it’s a reflection

Dana Kadwell: Right. 

Courtney Hopper: Sometimes I think people rub you the wrong way, just because they’re a little obtuse. They don’t see how they’re coming across you know. Which I’m sure everyone is at some points or somebody else. And I think that’s a very deep thought. So if you were to go around and write negative reviews, about interactions you haven’t loved with people, and then reflecting on those.

Dana Kadwell: Like, do I do the same thing? 

Courtney Hopper: Do I do the same thing? I mean, I think everybody does everything at some point. But it’s like, is that how you relate to people? Like we have some est people in our family. And I am very conscientious to not use est, I don’t really ever describe anything as the best or the worst. Like, I’m just not that kind of person, even in what I would consider really hard years. I wouldn’t be like, that was the worst year of my life. How would I know?

Dana Kadwell: I mean, at that moment, you should know whether it was the worst year of your life.

Courtney Hopper: My thing would be that I noticed other people doing like, I’m talking to them. And I’m like, if I were to write a review about you, I’m like, you’re an est person. And I’ve been in so many conversations where it’s like, that was the worst. That was the worst. That was the worst. I mean, we’re just down to Florida recently. And there is someone telling me that it was the worst year and I’m like, I’m pretty sure you said that the year before, even the year before that. How can you have three worst years in a row? So on the flip side of that, when I’m describing my experiences or my years or whatever, I just don’t wait them that way. Like, this is the best, this is the worst. That was a good year this was a bad year is a difficult year, but I’m not like an est.

Dana Kadwell: Right. So then the question is, were you in US person before? That’s all I’m saying is like there’s is there something that you’ve seen in somebody that’s like made you change who you are? Because you recognize that like, oh, I don’t want to be that person.

Courtney Hopper: I can’t say that. I mean, maybe, but I’m saying, for my example, it’s more just out of observation. 

Dana Kadwell: You don’t ever want to be that. 

Courtney Hopper: I don’t want to be that person that I am very careful about the words that I use, because I know what it sounds like, on the other end, when someone’s like, this is the worst year and I’m like, That’s the fifth time you’ve told me that, you know, or this is the worst thing or whatever, it makes what you say less valid, like carries less weight to me, like you just are hyperbolic at that point. You know what I mean? 

Dana Kadwell: Yeah. 

Courtney Hopper: And I don’t want to come across as that.

Dana Kadwell: All right, so let’s get back to the topic at hand. I think this kind of even still kind of, is on the same train of thought. The whole purpose is like analyze your business, analyze your integral core, like, you know, that touch point that you use, like, what is it the message you’re trying to tell? I think that you’re tapping into humanity. You’re not. And I agree, like, when I think back to like, what is our what is our core value, there’s, there’s values, there’s course thematic, like this is the this is the feel we try to get with the architecture and the design or whatever. And we do have a very core integral core for that. 

Courtney Hopper: It’s very well defined. 

Dana Kadwell: But then there’s also that core value piece of it. And I think, for us, like what we recognize is it took us a while to get to more value selling we opened up the brand for like, we’re going to be the best in hospitality that’s our thing. This was like years into it, because we started acknowledging the humanity of our clients. And I loved how she said that, like, once you can acknowledge the humanity and you give them agency…

Courtney Hopper: Then it’s like, you’re just having a conversation with them 100%. 

Dana Kadwell: And then, it’s a person and then you have that. That’s where the marketing like…

Courtney Hopper: Oh, you need this. I have this, that kind of connection.

Dana Kadwell: Yeah. And I love that. And I it’s so true. And that, that and it but it’s I think it’s hard to do as well. Like, it’s hard to find that spot as a new business owner entrepreneur, because, like I said, it wasn’t something that was we just did, it took. 

Courtney Hopper: Because I think when we got started, it was like, I’m interacting with you in a transactional way. I want your money because I need it. So I will continue building that business. 

Dana Kadwell: But it’s not like we didn’t build the venue. Because for an altruistic reason, we didn’t build it, because we’re like, Oh, my God is gonna be so much fun. Like I remember like, sitting on the back porch with my husband, talking about this plan that you’ve convinced me to do. And I have to give it to him to do it at this point. Because I have to convince him to spend our money to do this. That it was like this is our retirement plan. Like this is going to give us and I said this, I literally says it’s gonna give us financial freedom by doing this. And sure, there’s a passion there. Sure, I wanted to help people. But the truth is, and the truth for anyone going into business is not because you have this part of it, there is a part of it, because you have amazing product, but part of it is because you want that financial freedom. You want that financial success so that you can do all the things in your life that you want to do. So I think for a while when you start your business, there isn’t that humanity piece to it. Just a financial peace to it.

Courtney Hopper: Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think back to some of our very first clients at the Bradford I wasn’t I mean, we were doing the best that we could do. But I certainly wasn’t thinking about things from our client’s perspective. 

Dana Kadwell: Oh, not at all. Our very first client that we had, which is the wedding we don’t talk about. And we had this planner open house the day before, because we did everything really close together. So we’re like, you know, scrambling to finish. So I remember it rained terribly the day of the planner open house and it was not well attended. But we had these at the time, and these beautiful linens and they were we had all set up in the house. We didn’t have seven the ballroom because the ballroom was still kind of like we were still finishing the things that needed to happen. And this client was like a pain to begin with. Like she was just so frustrating to work with. And she wouldn’t listen to anything we said, like, did not value our opinion and had like the just super cheap. Like, everything was like DIY like wouldn’t rent linens because we had an exclusive partnership with CEE rental at this time. And whatever it linens, we weren’t making money on that, which is super frustrating the buying like crappy, like, you know, dollars or linens, whatever. And I remember they were supposed to come for the rehearsal. And we were like, should we break down these tables? And we were like, No, like they should see what they could have had. But like what an asshole thing to do?

Courtney Hopper: Its sounds very petty. 

Dana Kadwell: This is so petty, such an asshole thing to do back on it. And of course, they were upset that the House still had tables from the previous moment and there. It was not like. So it was it was not God, 

Courtney Hopper: I don’t even remember that I have so many like blank spaces related to this time in our life.

Dana Kadwell: But like, it’s just I feel like and I really truly believe this that why we struggled so much in this first two years is because we weren’t thinking about the human side of our clients. 

Courtney Hopper: People are thinking about, like survival. 

Dana Kadwell: No, and I’m not. And I’m not going back and saying it was wrong. I’m just, I mean, it was wrong. But I’m not saying I don’t understand, I understand the context of it, I get why we were doing it, but and why we were behaving that way. But it also made me realize, like, as we that success are really happening. And as successful as they’re happening. We hired Bailey, who was the most personable person who really honestly showed us what hospitality was, and what it should be. And I think we can credit a lot of that to her and how much of a game changer it was. And we realize these are this is not just transactions, these are people. 

Courtney Hopper: Yeah. And who’ve entrusted you with what they consider to be, at this point, the most important day of their life?

Dana Kadwell: Yeah. But I mean, it is. Yeah, it is the start of everything, whether and I know you can argue like Oh, my child being born is most important. No, I mean, if you the day, whether it’s a whether it’s a wedding, whether it’s a commitment that you’re going to, you’re going to have a life together, like that’s an important day. It’s the start of the rest of your story with this person. 

Courtney Hopper: Or the beginning of the end, you know never things go.

Dana Kadwell: You know, like where you’re building this family and this, I don’t know. So I know you don’t think wedding days are the most important day of your life. But I look back on my wedding day and I do think that. I really do. Like it’s a day when like life started.

Courtney Hopper: It’s very sweet. 

Dana Kadwell: Yeah. I mean, and I’ve had lots of… 

Courtney Hopper: It’s so sentimental. 

Dana Kadwell: I’ve had lots of meaningful days, like I have, you know, but I still think it is this, it is the start of our family. You know, so anyways, I love that I felt like that is I wish he was around when we were started and that advice is given to us because I think. 

Courtney Hopper: I don’t think we’re even really marketing at that point. Again, like, it’s so far from our mind.

Dana Kadwell: I mean, we were because we had to like book it, but we didn’t know how to do it, we just had Facebook. 

Courtney Hopper: We didn’t understand that message. 

Dana Kadwell: We had some instant messaging. We didn’t understand we had a message we were like, here’s a picture, book your space that would be enough.

Courtney Hopper: What do you mean it isn’t enough for you? 

Dana Kadwell: I know. I know. 

Courtney Hopper: All right. 

Dana Kadwell: But that was great. I love Christy go check her out. She is such a wealth of knowledge when it comes to this stuff.

Courtney Hopper: Agreed. 

Dana Kadwell: All around that just in the industry. Just she works with all types. 

Courtney Hopper: She’s the best. 

Dana Kadwell: Do you want that end on our fuckup of the week. 

Courtney Hopper: Oh, fuckup of the week. Let’s talk about that. What’s going on this week?

Dana Kadwell: I really actually don’t have one. 

Courtney Hopper: You’ve had a perfect week?

Dana Kadwell: I haven’t had a perfect week, but I don’t really have one where I felt like I had like fucked something up.

Courtney Hopper: Yeah, I don’t know. I feel like my fuckup of the week is again, just literally my fuckup of the year. It’s just like everything just piling on top of everything.

Dana Kadwell: Not delegating 

Courtney Hopper: Anything on top of everything and not delegating. Yes, delegate. Yes, I just tried to do all of it. And then I get to the point of overwhelm. 

Dana Kadwell: It’s the assumptions. 

Courtney Hopper: In fact, I tried to drop my children off on Sunday to a friend of ours, her son was having 13th birthday party and I got dressed and everything I planned on going and I haven’t seen her in a while and she said how are you and I just started crying. I was so overwhelmed. And she was like, I don’t know if you can go home and like, take control of something clean a bathroom, I don’t know. I feel out of control. And she was like, go do that I have the kids. So much so that she sent me flowers the next day. Saying that even superwomen need flowers too, which I thought was super sweet, but I was like clearly I’m giving off the overwhelmed vibes.

Thanks everyone for gathering us today to talk about the hustle. For episodes Christie we are drinking Campari and soda. We hope you get the chance to make it this week and cheers to being true to your core values. To learn more and connect with Christie, you can check her business on Instagram @mtnsidemediaco and you can visit the website mountainsidemedia.com.

Dana Kadwell: And learn more about our hustles visit us on the gram @cndevent, @thebradfordnc and @hustlinggather. If you’re interested in learning more about our speaking training or venue consulting head over to our website at hustlinggathered.com. 

Courtney Hopper: Also if you love us and you love this show, we would be more than honored if you left us a rating and a review.

Dana Kadwell: This podcast the production of Earfluence. I’m Dana,

Courtney Hopper: And I’m Courtney,

Dana Kadwell: And we’ll talk to you next time on Hustle and Gather.